Damage indicators: Ban or keep? (also a feedback thread)

[betty's oldies]

For reference, you can find my old thread here: https://www.cubecraft.net/threads/ban-damage-indicators-from-the-approved-mods-list.136492/

Title says above. Do you want damage indicators to remain allowed or do you want them banned? They should be banned because they give the user information not obtained normally in vanilla -- you're able to see enemy HP and tactically decide what to do. Unlike HUD mods that show your armor and weapon durability (can be checked by going to your inventory), you cannot see the exact enemy HP -- you're forced to make assumptions as to how much damage you've dealt and how much damage he has taken.

This time I'll be collecting data from this thread and decide if it should be put into the recap this weekend.

 

[Story]

As much as I love damage indicators and use them all the time, I have to vote against them. I feel that they massively help me tackle teams on solo and team survival games, I also know whether to attack a player if he's low, if he's got full health and mines is low I can choose not to fight him. This mod offers so much more than people may think at first glance, it can decide winners of whole games and the benefits gained from using it are too huge for it to continue to be allowed.

 

[Moooofin]

It should be blocked off server side or given to everyone server side. If you're fighting someone and they can see your health and you can't see theirs you're at a massive disadvantage

 

[Despacito 2]

massive disadvantage

Exaggeration. A "massive" exaggeration.



In my opinion just give everyone on the server health tags. I don't care if it gets blacklisted. They currently don't even work anyway.

 

[Moooofin]

Exaggeration. A "massive" exaggeration.



In my opinion just give everyone on the server health tags. I don't care if it gets blacklisted. They currently don't even work anyway.

If you're able to base your whole fight on your opponents health that's a big advantage

 

[betty's oldies]

Exaggeration. A "massive" exaggeration.



In my opinion just give everyone on the server health tags. I don't care if it gets blacklisted. They currently don't even work anyway.

They do. Look closely at 1:05 of this video:

 

[Despacito 2]

If you're able to base your whole fight on your opponents health that's a big advantage

Not entirely.
Other factors still play a role. Such as gear, weapons and the players' and opponent's skill. You may have an advantage while fighting but if you Spam Click you will simply get nowhere. Yes people with Health indicators do have an advantage. But that its massive is just exaggerating.

They do. Look closely at 1:05 of this video:

Doesn't look that efficient. I've seen better. Sadly the better ones don't really work that well on Cube. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[ChasingRainbows]

I think that they should be on the server normally tbh. Although I don't use them, but I usually play eggwars and either avoid combat and play everyone as if they were full health.

 

[xXNiChO_29Xx]

I'd say banning the Mod would be the best decision.
It gives the player who has it a lot of advantage against the enemy.
+1

 

[Ducky]

I used it but I don't really care or mind if it gets removed from the Allowed Mods list, because I don't use it anymore, but if you use it you've got a bit of advantage

 

[ElPtricko]

The armor HUD mod should then be banned as well, as it allows you to look at your armor and foight at the same time which is an advantage, not a massive one but it is a advantage just like the Damage Indicators.
I agree that it does give an advantage but, its still very useful. I mostly use it to see if i even deal damage when fighting.

If the mod doesnt get allowed then i wont use it of course, but i feel like there should be a damage indicator plugin on the server, for all games, as it is also for curiosity.

 

[Daniel_H212]

I messaged an admin about this, specifically the admin who posted the allowed mods thread, and I explained why damage indicators are way too overpowered to be in the game. I used it a few times, and it was so unfair that I stopped using it.

I only sent it as a message and not a post because I did not want other players to realize how op the damage indicators mod is, and start using it. However, I think it is time when people should know, and we should get something done about stopping people from using it.

First, most people underestimate the power of such information, to be able to know an enemy's health. However, it allows you to judge when to take fights, when to run away, etc. Also knowing your enemy's status effects is even bigger of an advantage. One of the few times I used damage indicators, I was able to see my opponent's health, and I realized that they had eaten a notch apple. Had I not known that, I would have committed to the fight, knowing that my skills are above that of my opponent, but not knowing that I would die before him even if I hit him more than he hits me. I was able to stay alive and go on to win the game that way.

Another, even more overpowered function of the mod is that it shows a tiny red number jumping almost like a particle from a player's body whenever they take damage, and a green number when a player heals. This may not be that useful on it's own, but the one problem is: the numbers can be seen through walls, and they can be seen from even farther than the render distance for name tags. Therefore, if someone is hiding by sneaking, or if they are farther away than you would normally be able to see their nametag, you would still be able to know where they are from the numbers popping off of their body if they regen health or take damage.

The way I found out about that? It was my last game of egg wars before I stopped using the mod, and I saw two players fighting from across the map, so far that I could not see their nametags, and there was no direct view due to the mid island being between us...

Just to note, almost every single major hacked client I have tested privately have healthtags hacks and playeresp hacks. What do they do? One allows you to see your opponents' health, the other allows you to see where they are. If hackers think it is such useful information that they make a hack for it, then it should not be a allowed mod.

 

[betty's oldies]

I messaged an admin about this, specifically the admin who posted the allowed mods thread, and I explained why damage indicators are way too overpowered to be in the game. I used it a few times, and it was so unfair that I stopped using it.

I only sent it as a message and not a post because I did not want other players to realize how op the damage indicators mod is, and start using it. However, I think it is time when people should know, and we should get something done about stopping people from using it.

First, most people underestimate the power of such information, to be able to know an enemy's health. However, it allows you to judge when to take fights, when to run away, etc. Also knowing your enemy's status effects is even bigger of an advantage. One of the few times I used damage indicators, I was able to see my opponent's health, and I realized that they had eaten a notch apple. Had I not known that, I would have committed to the fight, knowing that my skills are above that of my opponent, but not knowing that I would die before him even if I hit him more than he hits me. I was able to stay alive and go on to win the game that way.

Another, even more overpowered function of the mod is that it shows a tiny red number jumping almost like a particle from a player's body whenever they take damage, and a green number when a player heals. This may not be that useful on it's own, but the one problem is: the numbers can be seen through walls, and they can be seen from even farther than the render distance for name tags. Therefore, if someone is hiding by sneaking, or if they are farther away than you would normally be able to see their nametag, you would still be able to know where they are from the numbers popping off of their body if they regen health or take damage.

The way I found out about that? It was my last game of egg wars before I stopped using the mod, and I saw two players fighting from across the map, so far that I could not see their nametags, and there was no direct view due to the mid island being between us...

Just to note, almost every single major hacked client I have tested privately have healthtags hacks and playeresp hacks. What do they do? One allows you to see your opponents' health, the other allows you to see where they are. If hackers think it is such useful information that they make a hack for it, then it should not be a allowed mod.

Better put on public than in private. You made the right choice to speak up. However, even if it becomes a banned mod, people will still use it. Those kinds of mods aren't easy to spot similar to ESP. The best way is to block it using a plugin by showing a fake amount of HP (either 1 HP or 20 regardless).

 

[betty's oldies]

The armor HUD mod should then be banned as well, as it allows you to look at your armor and foight at the same time which is an advantage, not a massive one but it is a advantage just like the Damage Indicators.
I agree that it does give an advantage but, its still very useful. I mostly use it to see if i even deal damage when fighting.

If the mod doesnt get allowed then i wont use it of course, but i feel like there should be a damage indicator plugin on the server, for all games, as it is also for curiosity.

But you can quickly check your inventory (don't take too long) or check before the battle as to how much HP your armor has. The difference here is that you can still check your armor HP in the game with or without that mod installed but you cannot check enemy health unless you have DI or a healthtag mod installed.

 

[ElPtricko]

But you can quickly check your inventory (don't take too long) or check before the battle as to how much HP your armor has. The difference here is that you can still check your armor HP in the game with or without that mod installed but you cannot check enemy health unless you have DI or a healthtag mod installed.

Ok, i get what you mean. The mod is kind of too op for pvping, so i dont really mind if it gets removed from the allowed mods.

 

[Injunction]

For reference, you can find my old thread here: https://www.cubecraft.net/threads/ban-damage-indicators-from-the-approved-mods-list.136492/

Title says above. Do you want damage indicators to remain allowed or do you want them banned? They should be banned because they give the user information not obtained normally in vanilla -- you're able to see enemy HP and tactically decide what to do. Unlike HUD mods that show your armor and weapon durability (can be checked by going to your inventory), you cannot see the exact enemy HP -- you're forced to make assumptions as to how much damage you've dealt and how much damage he has taken.

This time I'll be collecting data from this thread and decide if it should be put into the recap this weekend.

I personally do find them unfair in some cases but I also don't feel that it is because let's look at a model here:

Okay Both Players Are Playing Strategically
Example 1

AttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttB

Player A Has Damage Indicators But B Doesn't

After They Fight A Little A Runs Low On Health (Within 1 Heart)
So A Runs Away To Eat A Golden Apple Because B Has 3 Hearts & Can't Kill B Because A Knows How Much Health He Has

Example 2

AttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttB

Player A Has No Damage Indicators Neither Does B

After They Fight A Little Again A Runs Low On Health (1 Heart)
So Again A Runs Away & Eats The Golden Apple Ever Though For All A Knows B Could Be

Either Way It Works The Same So I Personally Think They Are Alright

​

 

[betty's oldies]

I personally do find them unfair in some cases but I also don't feel that it is because let's look at a model here:

Okay Both Players Are Playing Strategically
Example 1

AttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttB

Player A Has Damage Indicators But B Doesn't

After They Fight A Little A Runs Low On Health (Within 1 Heart)
So A Runs Away To Eat A Golden Apple Because B Has 3 Hearts & Can't Kill B Because A Knows How Much Health He Has

Example 2

AttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttB

Player A Has No Damage Indicators Neither Does B

After They Fight A Little Again A Runs Low On Health (1 Heart)
So Again A Runs Away & Eats The Golden Apple Ever Though For All A Knows B Could Be

Either Way It Works The Same So I Personally Think They Are Alright

​

It's not just 1 or 2 scenarios. Here's one:

Let's say you saw players A and B far apart. You're weaker in terms of gear and see that both have full diamond armor, but A has only 2 hearts and B has 10 hearts. With that mod, you'd most likely go for A for an easy kill but avoid B. Without that mod, you'd chicken out and run away from both knowing that they'd rip you to pieces easily.

It's not necessarily what the mod does that gives you the advantage -- it's what you get from it. You're getting information that others cannot normally obtain unless they have that mod. Even Sun Tzu said that information is half of the battle, quoted here:

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.

In your example, player A has information player B does not have. With that, he can decide exactly what weapons to use (a few bow shots before, lava, etc), when to back away, and when to return for a counterattack. He can also guess how much saturation the other has based on regen speed.

 

[SrLokiToo]

The damage indicator mod is currently not working anyway.

As dotsy said skills, weapons and armour also plays a huge part. There have been plenty of times where i have gone to fight someone but they outskilled me even with me being able to see their health.

I mean if we want to talk about advantages of each and every mod thats allowed lets talk about optifine.
Fps optimizes you in game = gives you a better gameplay But people who do not use it have to put up with lag.

I feel like there are more important things to be worrying about than a damage indicator mod. Such as improving the server...updating games, adding a party system etc.

 

[Despacito 2]

I mean if we want to talk about advantages of each and every mod thats allowed lets talk about optifine.
Fps optimizes you in game = gives you a better gameplay But people who do not use it have to put up with lag.

Depends on your Computer. I lag more with Optifine than without Optifine.

 

[Spyridon Agnew Dragon]

Damage indicators i dont need to deterimine health as specific actions speak for me so i dont care if its banned or not because i have my own version without the visual number ( no mod its specific actions)