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Sophie

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May 1, 2014
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Arendine Sink
Sentinel is the most abusive staff member in the history of this server

The Anti-Cheat is currently a double-edged sword. When swung, it takes down a massive number of hackers. However, it also tends to hit its allies on a considerable basis. I understand that no Anti-Cheat is perfect, but there's imperfection and then there's Sentinel. Keep in mind that those who claim to have been falsely punished are just the people that have spoken up. What about all those that you don't hear about? There must be hundreds of players currently banned by Sentinel who just cannot be bothered to appeal, because there are other servers out there that offer the same experiences as Cubecraft, that they know won't randomly ban them. If this were a staff member and not an Anti-Cheat, would they retain their position?

Because I don't know how the Anti-Cheat works, I cannot really suggest anything to improve it. I know that it has an immense number of legitimate bans, so removing the Anti-Cheat absolutely cannot happen. However, I think the best step in the right direction would be to simply make it quicker and easier for those who are wrongly banned to get unbanned. It wouldn't matter quite as much if you're false-flagged by Sentinel, so long as you don't have to live out a portion of an undeserved punishment when it happens.

Ideas to make Sentinel appeals more efficient

I contacted the developer behind Sentinel the other night to try and get my friend unbanned, and he told me this:

"They go through staff, if staff park it as a false positive appeal, then I take a look at it
the process usually takes around 24 hours since most staff are not online since in the uk it's 1AM"


Why do ordinary staff receive the appeals? They don't know how the Anti-Cheat works, nor do they have any way to verify whether the flag was false or not. They can check past offences, but if somebody has a history of rule-breaking, then they'll most likely remain banned despite being innocent on this occasion. This step of the process works against the innocent, because the only person who knows how the system works, cannot be contacted unless staff handle your appeal first. If staff accept your appeal, then the developer behind Sentinel does his thing. If they deny your appeal, you contact the developer behind Sentinel, and he still does his thing. I believe this step should be removed, because it slows the process down.

This would also work in the favour of the innocent, meaning that they don't have to install / make an account on Discord, join the server, and then wait ten minutes before being able to ask who you're supposed to speak to. It also means that you won't have to wait eight hours or so for CrazymanJR to come online if he's asleep or not working. Perhaps I'm missing something, so please state otherwise if there's a reason for why staff handle these appeals, but the whole system seems to rule against the innocent in every way imaginable, trying to keep them banned for as long as possible.

As mentioned above, it could've taken around 24 hours for my friend to be unbanned. So... despite not having cheated at all, he's still being punished to some extent regardless? Not only would he not have been able to play any more that night, but he wouldn't have been able to play throughout the whole next day.

I'm not sure how easy this would be to do, but it might also be worth having Sr. Mods and Admins handle Sentinel bans, serving a role alongside CrazymanJR. If they're able to actually verify whether it was a false-positive or not, then appeals would be handled a lot faster, since it wouldn't just be one already overworked developer handling every Sentinel appeal.

Because ordinary staff cannot confirm for sure whether or not the ban was a false-positive, those banned essentially have to rely on the mood of the staff member at the time in which they check the appeal. Some might give you the benefit of the doubt and forward the appeal, however some might not. Take for example @Mikhail Gorbachev , whose appeal was denied. I'm not sure what their appeal entailed, but nonetheless I seriously doubt that they were cheating.


Tell us why we were banned and when we were caught

At the moment, Sentinel delivers only one line of dialogue when banning you:
'You are BANNED by cc_sentinel at Jul 30, 2017 8:27:13 PM for Sentinel caught you cheating! (Anticheat)'


This isn't very descriptive... like, at all. All it does is state the obvious and tell you that you were banned by the Anti-Cheat. My friend was banned within five minutes of logging into the server, in a game of Minerware. However, because Sentinel doesn't tell us why you've been banned or when you were caught, we weren't sure whether he was banned because of something he did in that Minerware game, or if he was banned for a past occurrence. After all, we know that "Sentinel bans in waves". However, because this is so vague, we don't know whether he was caught when he played Minerware, or if he was caught a week prior.

A better line of dialogue would be something like this:

'You are BANNED by cc_Sentinel in Skywars, for: The Anti-Cheat suspects you were cheating at Jul 30, 2017 8:27:13PM (Autoclicker)'

This tells us both when the player was first caught cheating, and what they were suspected of. If people need to check when the ban itself occurred, they can do so when they go to appeal. This would allow the person to provide information that's actually relevant to the ban in their appeal. For instance, using my friend as an example again, if he was caught say, three days prior to the ban, then everything mentioned in his appeal would've been irrelevant, since he explained only the instances leading up to the ban itself. Also, by telling us where they were caught cheating (i.e. Skywars), it allows the accused to recall the last time they played said gamemode, thus further helping them to provide information that's actually relevant.

Show off a bit more

Obviously the management team are very proud of Sentinel, so why not show it off a bit more? Here's an example that I made with my MLG-Superstar Microsoft Paint skills:
upload_2017-7-31_13-30-27.png

It just seems like an appropriate thing to display on the front page, especially to demonstrate that despite the false-positives, it does do its job more or less. It will also make the server look cooler :cool:

Potential issue with Minerware(?)

Perhaps this has already been done, but the Anti-Cheat's Auto-clicker detection should be disabled in Minerware. As some of you might be aware, there is a minigame that sees players throw stacks of chicken eggs to hatch eight chickens. Whether you win or lose in this game is decided by three factors: How much time you have, how fast you click, and RNG. Because two of these factors are out of player control, anybody with the intent to win will naturally click as quickly as possible, to compensate for the two factors that they have no influence over, and might be working against them.

Because it's so easy to forget that "butterfly clicking" can result in bans from Sentinel, and easy to not know this completely if you're in the 99% that don't use the forums, I would bet that a lot of bans for auto-clicking come from this gamemode, this micro-game specifically. The game itself essentially encourages you to do something that can get your account banned, since otherwise, you're probably not going to win.

Rename 'Sentinel' to 'Aegis'

:rolleyes: I'll give you £2 if you do, lol :rolleyes:
 

Sophie

Forum Professional
May 1, 2014
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Font is bigger than usual because one paragraph ended up like that, and I couldn't revert it to the default size :(
 

ElPtricko

Dedicated Member
Sep 12, 2016
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Tell us why we were banned and when we were caught
Personally I would want to know when exactly it thinks we were cheating and what cheats, but some say that this isn't won't be happening as it makes it easier for developers of hacked clients to make bypasses.
Show off a bit more
I really don't know why they didn't do this already. In my opinion this would be awesome and I am curious to see how many players/cheaters get banned in an x amount of time.
Potential issue with Minerware(?)
I am not sure, but I don't think sentinel bans for butterfly clicking on the right button of the mouse.
Though, either way that minigame I have only ocmpleted once, since the update came out, and that was in normal mode.
And you might be right, and either way, in my opinion that minigame is based of pure luck, and just isn't fun. I think it should either be removed or edited and fixed.
 

Gaaabb

Dedicated Member
May 2, 2017
595
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Sentinel is the most abusive staff member in the history of this server

The Anti-Cheat is currently a double-edged sword. When swung, it takes down a massive number of hackers. However, it also tends to hit its allies on a considerable basis. I understand that no Anti-Cheat is perfect, but there's imperfection and then there's Sentinel. Keep in mind that those who claim to have been falsely punished are just the people that have spoken up. What about all those that you don't hear about? There must be hundreds of players currently banned by Sentinel who just cannot be bothered to appeal, because there are other servers out there that offer the same experiences as Cubecraft, that they know won't randomly ban them. If this were a staff member and not an Anti-Cheat, would they retain their position?

Because I don't know how the Anti-Cheat works, I cannot really suggest anything to improve it. I know that it has an immense number of legitimate bans, so removing the Anti-Cheat absolutely cannot happen. However, I think the best step in the right direction would be to simply make it quicker and easier for those who are wrongly banned to get unbanned. It wouldn't matter quite as much if you're false-flagged by Sentinel, so long as you don't have to live out a portion of an undeserved punishment when it happens.

Ideas to make Sentinel appeals more efficient

I contacted the developer behind Sentinel the other night to try and get my friend unbanned, and he told me this:

"They go through staff, if staff park it as a false positive appeal, then I take a look at it
the process usually takes around 24 hours since most staff are not online since in the uk it's 1AM"


Why do ordinary staff receive the appeals? They don't know how the Anti-Cheat works, nor do they have any way to verify whether the flag was false or not. They can check past offences, but if somebody has a history of rule-breaking, then they'll most likely remain banned despite being innocent on this occasion. This step of the process works against the innocent, because the only person who knows how the system works, cannot be contacted unless staff handle your appeal first. If staff accept your appeal, then the developer behind Sentinel does his thing. If they deny your appeal, you contact the developer behind Sentinel, and he still does his thing. I believe this step should be removed, because it slows the process down.

This would also work in the favour of the innocent, meaning that they don't have to install / make an account on Discord, join the server, and then wait ten minutes before being able to ask who you're supposed to speak to. It also means that you won't have to wait eight hours or so for CrazymanJR to come online if he's asleep or not working. Perhaps I'm missing something, so please state otherwise if there's a reason for why staff handle these appeals, but the whole system seems to rule against the innocent in every way imaginable, trying to keep them banned for as long as possible.

As mentioned above, it could've taken around 24 hours for my friend to be unbanned. So... despite not having cheated at all, he's still being punished to some extent regardless? Not only would he not have been able to play any more that night, but he wouldn't have been able to play throughout the whole next day.

I'm not sure how easy this would be to do, but it might also be worth having Sr. Mods and Admins handle Sentinel bans, serving a role alongside CrazymanJR. If they're able to actually verify whether it was a false-positive or not, then appeals would be handled a lot faster, since it wouldn't just be one already overworked developer handling every Sentinel appeal.

Because ordinary staff cannot confirm for sure whether or not the ban was a false-positive, those banned essentially have to rely on the mood of the staff member at the time in which they check the appeal. Some might give you the benefit of the doubt and forward the appeal, however some might not. Take for example @Mikhail Gorbachev , whose appeal was denied. I'm not sure what their appeal entailed, but nonetheless I seriously doubt that they were cheating.


Tell us why we were banned and when we were caught

At the moment, Sentinel delivers only one line of dialogue when banning you:
'You are BANNED by cc_sentinel at Jul 30, 2017 8:27:13 PM for Sentinel caught you cheating! (Anticheat)'


This isn't very descriptive... like, at all. All it does is state the obvious and tell you that you were banned by the Anti-Cheat. My friend was banned within five minutes of logging into the server, in a game of Minerware. However, because Sentinel doesn't tell us why you've been banned or when you were caught, we weren't sure whether he was banned because of something he did in that Minerware game, or if he was banned for a past occurrence. After all, we know that "Sentinel bans in waves". However, because this is so vague, we don't know whether he was caught when he played Minerware, or if he was caught a week prior.

A better line of dialogue would be something like this:

'You are BANNED by cc_Sentinel in Skywars, for: The Anti-Cheat suspects you were cheating at Jul 30, 2017 8:27:13PM (Autoclicker)'

This tells us both when the player was first caught cheating, and what they were suspected of. If people need to check when the ban itself occurred, they can do so when they go to appeal. This would allow the person to provide information that's actually relevant to the ban in their appeal. For instance, using my friend as an example again, if he was caught say, three days prior to the ban, then everything mentioned in his appeal would've been irrelevant, since he explained only the instances leading up to the ban itself. Also, by telling us where they were caught cheating (i.e. Skywars), it allows the accused to recall the last time they played said gamemode, thus further helping them to provide information that's actually relevant.

Show off a bit more

Obviously the management team are very proud of Sentinel, so why not show it off a bit more? Here's an example that I made with my MLG-Superstar Microsoft Paint skills:
View attachment 135954
It just seems like an appropriate thing to display on the front page, especially to demonstrate that despite the false-positives, it does do its job more or less. It will also make the server look cooler :cool:

Potential issue with Minerware(?)

Perhaps this has already been done, but the Anti-Cheat's Auto-clicker detection should be disabled in Minerware. As some of you might be aware, there is a minigame that sees players throw stacks of chicken eggs to hatch eight chickens. Whether you win or lose in this game is decided by three factors: How much time you have, how fast you click, and RNG. Because two of these factors are out of player control, anybody with the intent to win will naturally click as quickly as possible, to compensate for the two factors that they have no influence over, and might be working against them.

Because it's so easy to forget that "butterfly clicking" can result in bans from Sentinel, and easy to not know this completely if you're in the 99% that don't use the forums, I would bet that a lot of bans for auto-clicking come from this gamemode, this micro-game specifically. The game itself essentially encourages you to do something that can get your account banned, since otherwise, you're probably not going to win.

Rename 'Sentinel' to 'Aegis'

:rolleyes: I'll give you £2 if you do, lol :rolleyes:
False banned a moderator lmao.
 
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Power Ranger

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Apr 20, 2016
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www.cubecraft.net
I remember the staff team used to stand by the motto "We rather let 100 hackers go free than falsely ban a single player." (Something like that) After sentinel was released that mentality just completely disappeared. I personally would rather deal with 1000 hackers than have a friend I play with banned permanently from the server.

Why do ordinary staff receive the appeals? They don't know how the Anti-Cheat works, nor do
Personally I prefer that moderators handle the appeals. I don't think a Sr.Mod or an Admin would do much better than any other mod if they didn't know how sentinel worked and had some programming experience. Also appeals would take forever to be handled and a player who spent 2 days gathering evidence to prove themselves innocent can easily spend the entire 7 day duration of the ban waiting for the appeal to be checked.
Either:
  • Moderators need to be trained better for sentinel appeals.
  • Staff need to be more lenient with appeals.
  • The developers have to provide more data to staff to help with appeals.

At the moment, Sentinel delivers only one line of dialogue when banning you:
'You are BANNED by cc_sentinel at Jul 30, 2017 8:27:13 PM for Sentinel caught you cheating! (Anticheat)'
His definitely has to be changed. "Cheating" leaves a lot of questions on the player's end like "Did sentinel catch me teaming?", "Did sentinel catch me camping?", "Does sentinel know about my blockgame affair?!?! I think it should be changed to what @TheBrownster904 suggested in my thread on appeals where the message lists a bunch of possible hacks the player could've been detected for. Also "Autoclicker" is a big one that should be listed possibly even alone. Client devs already know that sentinel has an autoclicker detection and there's a very easy way to bypass this by randomizing swings a bit. Just saying an autoclicker would probably help a lot with the majority of false bans.

My suggestions to "improve" sentinel are simple: remove it from games where hacking doesn't even matter that much like arcade, minerware, tower defence, and Blockband (if it's in there as of now) and let nocheatplus handle minerware and arcade if necessary. I think the autoclicker detection shouldn't even be used on the 1.9 network since fast clicking doesn't matter that much and hackers with massive amounts of cps are easy to kill in 1.9 and nocheatplus can also handle them pretty well. There are tons of different ways to detect kill aura such as fake players (way better way than the current autoclicker detection and probably the best way), reach calculation (effect by lag a lot though), or simply keeping track of a players hits to see if they are landing 100%. A friend of mine, who makes clients, claimed he bypassed sentinel's kill aura detection simply by randomizing the swings timing. That's just sad to me if its true.
 

LunaSeaStar

Member
Aug 1, 2017
2
3
3
I agree with this I know a lot of people who where falsely banned by sentinel, where as I knew two hackers (I believe they are both banned now :D) who for ages never got caught, not even by sentinel!
 

RPoule

Dedicated Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Netherlands
Agreed, mostly on the fact that it should be easier to get an unban from a sentinelban.
I've been in a false-ban situation myself and honestly, I was extremely disappointed in the way I got helped by staffmembers.
From most of them I got the usual answers, appeal here, and tell CrazymanJR he'll help you out.

Only 1 out of the 4 I spoke to was willing to tell me what I got banned for and actually help me out further, I'm not naming any names but he/she was the only one...

Also, CrazymanJR (the next thing ima type is not trying to offend Crazyman in any way, he is a really dedicated hard worker and I have a lot of respect for him) didn't really help me at all when I tried to get help from him.

I actually had to go to a different staffmember to get the help I really needed.

I agree on that all staffmembers should be better informed on how to get to the sentinel banlogs and how sentinel works so they can give more help to the ones that need it. Also, Crazyman should not be the only one to go to whenever you're false banned, more staffmembers should be informed on how to deal with false positives and then those could be contacted as well.

Sentinel logs barely ever lie, but they do sometimes. So I mainly want staff to stop saying: ''The logs dont lie''.
 

0ffense

Well-Known Member
Mar 27, 2017
544
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Orion constellation
I think these are fantastic ideas, the devs and admins should consider them IMO. Especially the one where Sentinel tells us why we were banned.
 

TheVenom27

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2016
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I think these are fantastic ideas, the devs and admins should consider them IMO. Especially the one where Sentinel tells us why we were banned.
I disagree, people who code these hacked clients will be able to bypass sentinel.
 

0ffense

Well-Known Member
Mar 27, 2017
544
384
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Orion constellation
I disagree, people who code these hacked clients will be able to bypass sentinel.
Indeed, but hacked clients are one problem, and false bans are another problem. Plus, some of the suggestions have nothing to do with Sentinel banning hackers better, but rather things like it telling you why you were banned and showing it off a bit more. The best anticheats dont JUST ban every hacker, there are many other good qualities of an anticheat.
 
Last edited:

ChasingRainbows

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Jun 16, 2016
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Florida
Indeed, but hacked clients are one problem, and false bans are one problem. Plus, some of the suggestions have nothing to do with Sentinel banning hackers better, but rather things like it telling you why you were banned and showing it off a bit more. The best anticheats dont JUST ban every hacker, there are many other good qualities of an anticheat.
So what is it that the best anticheats do? Please do tell, so we can go tell CrazymanJR and he can make sentinel soo much better by adding these features.

And if Sentinel told people why they were banned, I guarantee you it would become obsolete within days because someone would just fine-tune a client to beat it and release it as a version that is sentinel proof.
 
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