Parkour coming to bedrock and not the games they promised instead?

[Salty_Shadows]

Hello Cubecrafters!!

Sorry for those who hate reading long forum posts but this will be a long one so sit back take some popcorn and enjoy reading this

As my Last long forum post i did ill split them up into categories so its easier for people to read the parts theyre actually interested in :D

If anyone is toxic in the replies im not associated with them as im trying to keep this post not toxic at all i just need to voice the opinion of the community as we all feel a bit let down

Spoiler: Why Parkour?

So to be honest People in the Bedrock Community have been memeing the fact that they added parkour as they accidentally released it early a few days ago. And half the released maps in Competitive parkour dont even work properly. Theyve had plenty of time to test run the games as they gave Youtubers special early access and the bugs are still there like surely someone on the dev team shouldve noticed the fact in some of the maps none of the Checkpoints work at all and i know the sr. Mods will probably say Submit bug reports but i dont want to make them spend a whole day of their life going through only parkour bug reports when they have better things and more important things to look at. (I dont think Mar or any of the other bedrock bug report people want to be up at 3am doing parkour reports)

Spoiler: "Mobile friendly games"

To be honest at this point cc cant say they remove games (Such as line dash) for not being user friendly on all platforms when they release games that are even less mobile friendly such as Comp parkour as even from a designer themselves and i quote
"Some of the maps had to be changed as the jumps where impossible for mobile users" How can you release a game saying you will make it mobile friendly but release the one gamemode thats hard for mobile players like ngl half the community where expecting it and wanted it to be Line dash which is a surprise since not many people played it when it was out.
If you want to please your community and keep them happy Give them wat they want
Ive seen more people ask for Among Slimes and Line Dash to return more than i have seen suggestions for parkour to be added.
i know its gonna be another few months now til any new games are added as it takes years for updates to come to bedrock.

Spoiler: Overall reaction from the community

As some of you are probably aware im quite well known in the bedrock community so i have been going around asking for peoples opinions on the new gamemodes seeing what people think of them and here are some of the responses i got.
"Why add parkour when theres literally lobby parkour"
"The game is so buggy it makes line dash seem normal" <- my personal favourite
"Its going to flop harder than any game has so far on cubecraft"
"parkour isnt fun for mobile players going for lb"
"Top 20 on lb will all be pc players"
As you can see there all basically saying the same thing that adding parkour wasnt really a good idea

If any of that came off a little Toxic i aplogise to the cc staff as im trying to not be toxic im just saying my opinion and voicing the opinion of quite a few People in the cube community

Let me know your thoughts in the Replies below ill happily answer any questions u may have :D​

 

[ShinyArrow]

Hey! I will go ahead and give my opinion about this thread.

First of all, the bugs. Unfortunately with every update there will be bugs, it is almost impossible to keep a network as big as CubeCraft clean from bugs. This does not take away that the community and the staff-team can do their best to fix the bugs. A fact is that nobody likes bugs and they should get fixed as soon as possible. You claimed this: 'Sr. Mods will probably say Submit bug reports but i dont want to make them spend a whole day of their life going through only parkour bug reports when they have better things and more important things to look at'. If you or someone else doesn't take the initiative to report the bugs you come across, it is not possible to release a fix for the bugs - without bug reports, there is a smaller chance that we will know about the bugs. Currently we have Marieke2001 and Keanu who are reviewing bug reports, it is part of their business to review bug reports, therefore it is absolutely not a waste of their time to review Parkour bug reports.

I can't deny the fact that the Bedrock community has asked a lot for Among Slimes, however there has been a suggestion with a lot of support for a competitive parkour from Marieke2001 https://www.cubecraft.net/threads/competitive-parkour-with-mario-kart-features.266559/. Also, the parkour version of HiveMc called 'Death Run' is one of the most known Minecraft minigame from all Minecraft servers, partly due to the huge popularity. The argument I am trying to make with both of these examples, is that the Bedrock community (and Java community) has asked before and showed (in HiveMc) that CubeCraft can release a competitive parkour minigame.

Lastly, claiming that Parkour will fail harder than other minigames on CubeCraft makes no sense at all. CubeCraft released Parkour today and therefore it is too early to make such claims. Instead we should wait and analyse the results from Parkour. Parkour is not for nothing in beta on Bedrock, by looking at the current players of parkour we will be able to take a decision for the future of Parkour.

 

[Salty_Shadows]

Hey! I will go ahead and give my opinion about this thread.

First of all, the bugs. Unfortunately with every update there will be bugs, it is almost impossible to keep a network as big as CubeCraft clean from bugs. This does not take away that the community and the staff-team can do their best to fix the bugs. A fact is that nobody likes bugs and they should get fixed as soon as possible. You claimed this: 'Sr. Mods will probably say Submit bug reports but i dont want to make them spend a whole day of their life going through only parkour bug reports when they have better things and more important things to look at'. If you or someone else doesn't take the initiative to report the bugs you come across, it is not possible to release a fix for the bugs - without bug reports, there is a smaller chance that we will know about the bugs. Currently we have Marieke2001 and Keanu who are reviewing bug reports, it is part of their business to review bug reports, therefore it is absolutely not a waste of their time to review Parkour bug reports.

I can't deny the fact that the Bedrock community has asked a lot for Among Slimes, however there has been a suggestion with a lot of support for a competitive parkour from Marieke2001 https://www.cubecraft.net/threads/competitive-parkour-with-mario-kart-features.266559/. Also, the parkour version of HiveMc called 'Death Run' is one of the most known Minecraft minigame from all Minecraft servers, partly due to the huge popularity. The argument I am trying to make with both of these examples, is that the Bedrock community (and Java community) has asked before and showed (in HiveMc) that CubeCraft can release a competitive parkour minigame.

Lastly, claiming that Parkour will fail harder than other minigames on CubeCraft makes no sense at all. CubeCraft released Parkour today and therefore it is too early to make such claims. Instead we should wait and analyse the results from Parkour. Parkour is not for nothing in beta on Bedrock, by looking at the current players of parkour we will be able to take a decision for the future of Parkour.

to be fair Deathrun is very mobile friendly due to half the levels arent really parkour compared to comp parkour which clue is in the title is Parkour and isnt very mobile friendly

 

[Laura]

No hard feelings or toxicity.
We understand it can be tricky for people to talk about things which are not to their preferences without coming off as offensive or toxic.


To answer your points:

1) "Why Parkour?":

We've seen enough users show interest and ask questions about a Parkour Bedrock port, as well as interest in our old Competitive game mode, which warranted us looking into it. We thought we'd also give it a bit of love and polish at the same time so we added new maps and the new level modifiers.

It's also my first project at CubeCraft in a long time. So rather than throw me onto a more complex project, we thought it best to let me tackle this, not necessarily less complex, but more contained project first. This was definitely a complex project, but it was mainly just work on Parkour itself, and less integrated into some of the other systems and projects CubeCraft has going on.

Yes, there are a handful of bugs in it at the moment. I've already pushed several bug-fixes to solve some of the issues which have already cropped up, but I am currently tackling the outliers. As I've stated in another thread, some bugs can be near impossible to test for. If you have a bug which only crops up in 1 in every 100 games, or only when over 1000 people are playing the game, that's very difficult to replicate during development to identify the cause and fix.

Thankfully, due to today's release I now have a massive amount of data (heck, it's a lot of data) to track down these issues.

With regards to the Checkpoints issue, we're aware. This is a brand new issue which only cropped up in the last day or so. I know Camezonda and the rest of the team have been working very hard to make Competitive as smooth as possible since this problem arose. But let's just say that Competitive has been in storage for a long while, and some of the cobwebs we're pulling off are fighting back.


2) "Mobile friendly games":

I can only give a technical input on this, but there are ever so slight differences between the multiple versions of Minecraft Bedrock depending on what device and what controller input players are using. Some devices handle jumps and jump heights / distances differently than others. Testing on one device found some jumps to be too easy, some too hard, but when tested on another device those same easy jumps would be too hard, and the hard ones now too easy. We've been trying to find a balance for each competitive map which works well for all players across all Bedrock devices.


3) "Overall reaction from the community":

As I've said above, we've seen enough interest in a Parkour update / ported version to warrant it. Players have been regularly asking for a Bedrock edition of Parkour for ages, so we are providing players with what they've been asking for.
Some players really love PvP games, adore them. To the point where if something doesn't have PvP in it they have no interest in playing it. Other players are the exact opposite. They find PvP really unenjoyable and stressful. There's nothing wrong with either view, that's just what people like. So we understand this update probably won't be fully enjoyed by most of our PvP players, but we hope the ones who prefer less PvP games feel like they've been given more content to enjoy.
And remember; just because I've been working on this update, it doesn't mean other developers haven't been hard at work on other CubeCraft / Game updates. There's still lots going on here.

Hope that helps answer your concerns!

 

[Salty_Shadows]

No hard feelings or toxicity.
We understand it can be tricky for people to talk about things which are not to their preferences without coming off as offensive or toxic.


To answer your points:

1) "Why Parkour?":

We've seen enough users show interest and ask questions about a Parkour Bedrock port, as well as interest in our old Competitive game mode, which warranted us looking into it. We thought we'd also give it a bit of love and polish at the same time so we added new maps and the new level modifiers.

It's also my first project at CubeCraft in a long time. So rather than throw me onto a more complex project, we thought it best to let me tackle this, not necessarily less complex, but more contained project first. This was definitely a complex project, but it was mainly just work on Parkour itself, and less integrated into some of the other systems and projects CubeCraft has going on.

Yes, there are a handful of bugs in it at the moment. I've already pushed several bug-fixes to solve some of the issues which have already cropped up, but I am currently tackling the outliers. As I've stated in another thread, some bugs can be near impossible to test for. If you have a bug which only crops up in 1 in every 100 games, or only when over 1000 people are playing the game, that's very difficult to replicate during development to identify the cause and fix.

Thankfully, due to today's release I now have a massive amount of data (heck, it's a lot of data) to track down these issues.

With regards to the Checkpoints issue, we're aware. This is a brand new issue which only cropped up in the last day or so. I know Camezonda and the rest of the team have been working very hard to make Competitive as smooth as possible since this problem arose. But let's just say that Competitive has been in storage for a long while, and some of the cobwebs we're pulling off are fighting back.


2) "Mobile friendly games":

I can only give a technical input on this, but there are ever so slight differences between the multiple versions of Minecraft Bedrock depending on what device and what controller input players are using. Some devices handle jumps and jump heights / distances differently than others. Testing on one device found some jumps to be too easy, some too hard, but when tested on another device those same easy jumps would be too hard, and the hard ones now too easy. We've been trying to find a balance for each competitive map which works well for all players across all Bedrock devices.


3) "Overall reaction from the community":

As I've said above, we've seen enough interest in a Parkour update / ported version to warrant it. Players have been regularly asking for a Bedrock edition of Parkour for ages, so we are providing players with what they've been asking for.
Some players really love PvP games, adore them. To the point where if something doesn't have PvP in it they have no interest in playing it. Other players are the exact opposite. They find PvP really unenjoyable and stressful. There's nothing wrong with either view, that's just what people like. So we understand this update probably won't be fully enjoyed by most of our PvP players, but we hope the ones who prefer less PvP games feel like they've been given more content to enjoy.
And remember; just because I've been working on this update, it doesn't mean other developers haven't been hard at work on other CubeCraft / Game updates. There's still lots going on here.

Hope that helps answer your concerns!

i Fully take on board with what u said and its nice to Have you working on a cubecraft project again :D

 

[GHSpaghetti]

No hard feelings or toxicity.
We understand it can be tricky for people to talk about things which are not to their preferences without coming off as offensive or toxic.


To answer your points:

1) "Why Parkour?":

We've seen enough users show interest and ask questions about a Parkour Bedrock port, as well as interest in our old Competitive game mode, which warranted us looking into it. We thought we'd also give it a bit of love and polish at the same time so we added new maps and the new level modifiers.

It's also my first project at CubeCraft in a long time. So rather than throw me onto a more complex project, we thought it best to let me tackle this, not necessarily less complex, but more contained project first. This was definitely a complex project, but it was mainly just work on Parkour itself, and less integrated into some of the other systems and projects CubeCraft has going on.

Yes, there are a handful of bugs in it at the moment. I've already pushed several bug-fixes to solve some of the issues which have already cropped up, but I am currently tackling the outliers. As I've stated in another thread, some bugs can be near impossible to test for. If you have a bug which only crops up in 1 in every 100 games, or only when over 1000 people are playing the game, that's very difficult to replicate during development to identify the cause and fix.

Thankfully, due to today's release I now have a massive amount of data (heck, it's a lot of data) to track down these issues.

With regards to the Checkpoints issue, we're aware. This is a brand new issue which only cropped up in the last day or so. I know Camezonda and the rest of the team have been working very hard to make Competitive as smooth as possible since this problem arose. But let's just say that Competitive has been in storage for a long while, and some of the cobwebs we're pulling off are fighting back.


2) "Mobile friendly games":

I can only give a technical input on this, but there are ever so slight differences between the multiple versions of Minecraft Bedrock depending on what device and what controller input players are using. Some devices handle jumps and jump heights / distances differently than others. Testing on one device found some jumps to be too easy, some too hard, but when tested on another device those same easy jumps would be too hard, and the hard ones now too easy. We've been trying to find a balance for each competitive map which works well for all players across all Bedrock devices.


3) "Overall reaction from the community":

As I've said above, we've seen enough interest in a Parkour update / ported version to warrant it. Players have been regularly asking for a Bedrock edition of Parkour for ages, so we are providing players with what they've been asking for.
Some players really love PvP games, adore them. To the point where if something doesn't have PvP in it they have no interest in playing it. Other players are the exact opposite. They find PvP really unenjoyable and stressful. There's nothing wrong with either view, that's just what people like. So we understand this update probably won't be fully enjoyed by most of our PvP players, but we hope the ones who prefer less PvP games feel like they've been given more content to enjoy.
And remember; just because I've been working on this update, it doesn't mean other developers haven't been hard at work on other CubeCraft / Game updates. There's still lots going on here.

Hope that helps answer your concerns!

Wouldv'e liked you to address the part of the post saying where the games were super buggy, I personally like parkour but the amount of obvious oversights in the release of parkour is abysmal to say the least.

1. Non working checkpoints
2. Non-symmetrical maps in comp
3. Broken maps
4. Near impossible medal requirements on some maps

And those are just the bugs that were released with parkour, will you do anything about:
The bug in survival games where games fail to teleport people to the arena and keep them in lobby (This now happens nearly every game)?
What about the block breaking glitch in eggwars.
Or the ghostblock glitch
Or rubber banding happening when you interact with certain blocks such as glass panes and fences.
Or the downwards KB that happens when you take fall damage or damage from another player.
Or the fact that snow blocks can't be crafted in minerware making one game impossible.
Or what about when the game splits your party and puts your party members on the other team despite being in a party with them? (This glitch has existed for over a year now)
Or how there is no ingame timer for eggwars teams of 4 but there is for every other gamemode.

Those are just the main ones, I would hate to think what more there is in the server...
Most likely no response will be made but I am going to point all this out anyway.

 

[ATouchscreenPlayer]

I pretty sure they removed line dash not because of mobile players but because it had around 50 concurrent players which makes it the lowest performing game by far.

 

[Salty_Shadows]

I pretty sure they removed line dash not because of mobile players but because it had around 50 concurrent players which makes it the lowest performing game by far.

One of the main reasons I keep getting told is that its not mobile friendly

 

[GoodGuyZEK]

Top 20 on lb will all be pc players

whoever said that was wrong then. i'm 15th on the comp leaderboards and i play xbox, same with VisedBear102603

 

[Salty_Shadows]

whoever said that was wrong then. i'm 15th on the comp leaderboards and i play xbox, same with VisedBear102603

i think they meant kbm players

 

[Laura]

Wouldv'e liked you to address the part of the post saying where the games were super buggy, I personally like parkour but the amount of obvious oversights in the release of parkour is abysmal to say the least.

1. Non working checkpoints
2. Non-symmetrical maps in comp
3. Broken maps
4. Near impossible medal requirements on some maps

And those are just the bugs that were released with parkour, will you do anything about:
The bug in survival games where games fail to teleport people to the arena and keep them in lobby (This now happens nearly every game)?
What about the block breaking glitch in eggwars.
Or the ghostblock glitch
Or rubber banding happening when you interact with certain blocks such as glass panes and fences.
Or the downwards KB that happens when you take fall damage or damage from another player.
Or the fact that snow blocks can't be crafted in minerware making one game impossible.
Or what about when the game splits your party and puts your party members on the other team despite being in a party with them? (This glitch has existed for over a year now)
Or how there is no ingame timer for eggwars teams of 4 but there is for every other gamemode.

Those are just the main ones, I would hate to think what more there is in the server...
Most likely no response will be made but I am going to point all this out anyway.

Well, I kinda did address the bugs in my reply, but I'm happy to make a further response.


1. The checkpoints issue was fixed within 48 hours of the game's release, so that's no longer an issue and no longer a valid criticism of the game.

2. There are a lot of maps, and things are missed when checking over them. We're unfortunatley not doing block-by-block comparisons of both sides of competitive maps as this is very costly for time. It could easily take more than a day for one of our team to go through the maps and make sure they're identical. We've tried to get both sides to match as best as possible, however if there's anything we've missed that a player encounters which shouldn't behave in certain ways or doesn't match, then we offer our apologies and request that players report it straight away as a bug. We've thankfully had several users report a few quirks and glitches of some of the maps over the last few days and we've been more than happy to get these rectified ASAP and are grateful that these players have taken the time to help us fix errors.

3. I'm not sure how this really differs from the prior point, as they both seem to be making the point that some of the maps have issues, so I'll refer you to my response to point 2 again.

4. All of our medal times have been tested with keyboard and mouse, and have been achieved by some of our staff. These times are adjusted to be more lenient on more difficult to control devices. Again, if you think some part of the game isn't behaving as intended or is too difficult then please file it as a bug report and we will look into it.


I'd also like to remind you that this game is in the Beta lobby, filed as a beta game. We are fully aware there may be undiagnosed issues with it, that's why we're requesting player feedback on the game to fix and polish it, or stash it away and work on it on a rainy day if player's aren't interested in it.
Personally, being honest and a little curt with you, I think describing the state of Parkour as abysmal is rather unbalanced, as you've only listed 3-4 issues. Issues which are pretty par-for-the-course for a game in the Beta stage of its life. But we are still incredibly thankful to any players who help us to make our content better by reporting the issues.


And unfortunately I can't make a comment on the other issues you've listed on other games, as I'm not involved with those projects. What I can say is that if they have been filed as a bug report and we can gather enough data on them then they will either be scheduled for a bugfix patch, or they may be scheduled to be fixed alongside a big game update. I don't have any details on that, however. Sometimes if we've got one of our trained monkeys devs looking into a project then it makes far more sense to do a game update along with it, as they're already elbow deep in the code tinkering away. Takes a lot more time and resources to get someone to delve into a game's code, let them understand the system and all its quirks, and then get them to fix one or two things, then have the same thing done 3 months later with a different dev.
Again. I don't know what the status is of these other projects, so I can't say for sure.

 

[Marieke2001]

Or the fact that snow blocks can't be crafted in minerware making one game impossible.
Or what about when the game splits your party and puts your party members on the other team despite being in a party with them? (This glitch has existed for over a year now)

These are not even known, I suggest reporting the bugs you find.
For the other bugs, most of them are protocol. The protocol team has been extremely busy (the team literally exists out of Suprememortal and Redned, 2 people while the game team and content team is bigger) with their own projects while literally half of our board is protocol issues. This caused the fixing of bugs to slow down, but if you check changelog on discord you see Redned doing a massive sprint in fixings bugs and getting everything back on track.

 

[GHSpaghetti]

Well, I kinda did address the bugs in my reply, but I'm happy to make a further response.


1. The checkpoints issue was fixed within 48 hours of the game's release, so that's no longer an issue and no longer a valid criticism of the game.

2. There are a lot of maps, and things are missed when checking over them. We're unfortunatley not doing block-by-block comparisons of both sides of competitive maps as this is very costly for time. It could easily take more than a day for one of our team to go through the maps and make sure they're identical. We've tried to get both sides to match as best as possible, however if there's anything we've missed that a player encounters which shouldn't behave in certain ways or doesn't match, then we offer our apologies and request that players report it straight away as a bug. We've thankfully had several users report a few quirks and glitches of some of the maps over the last few days and we've been more than happy to get these rectified ASAP and are grateful that these players have taken the time to help us fix errors.

3. I'm not sure how this really differs from the prior point, as they both seem to be making the point that some of the maps have issues, so I'll refer you to my response to point 2 again.

4. All of our medal times have been tested with keyboard and mouse, and have been achieved by some of our staff. These times are adjusted to be more lenient on more difficult to control devices. Again, if you think some part of the game isn't behaving as intended or is too difficult then please file it as a bug report and we will look into it.


I'd also like to remind you that this game is in the Beta lobby, filed as a beta game. We are fully aware there may be undiagnosed issues with it, that's why we're requesting player feedback on the game to fix and polish it, or stash it away and work on it on a rainy day if player's aren't interested in it.
Personally, being honest and a little curt with you, I think describing the state of Parkour as abysmal is rather unbalanced, as you've only listed 3-4 issues. Issues which are pretty par-for-the-course for a game in the Beta stage of its life. But we are still incredibly thankful to any players who help us to make our content better by reporting the issues.


And unfortunately I can't make a comment on the other issues you've listed on other games, as I'm not involved with those projects. What I can say is that if they have been filed as a bug report and we can gather enough data on them then they will either be scheduled for a bugfix patch, or they may be scheduled to be fixed alongside a big game update. I don't have any details on that, however. Sometimes if we've got one of our trained monkeys devs looking into a project then it makes far more sense to do a game update along with it, as they're already elbow deep in the code tinkering away. Takes a lot more time and resources to get someone to delve into a game's code, let them understand the system and all its quirks, and then get them to fix one or two things, then have the same thing done 3 months later with a different dev.
Again. I don't know what the status is of these other projects, so I can't say for sure.

Appreciate the response and I do understand that but If you have been testing these games extensively for months and yet players are able to notice them within 30 minutes of it being released, I feel it is kind of worrying, I made a post before about how there should be more playtesting of these games because these are fairly obvious oversights.

I would happily playtest theses games for you guys before release to point out all the bugs and problems i find in the games for you to fix before release and so would many others in the community.

 

[GoodGuyZEK]

i think they meant kbm players

Vised is controller. I switch between kbm and controller

 

[Redned]

Appreciate the response and I do understand that but If you have been testing these games extensively for months and yet players are able to notice them within 30 minutes of it being released, I feel it is kind of worrying, I made a post before about how there should be more playtesting of these games because these are fairly obvious oversights.

I would happily playtest theses games for you guys before release to point out all the bugs and problems i find in the games for you to fix before release and so would many others in the community.

I would also like to raise the point (which I believe was mentioned earlier in this thread) that various bugs that have popped up are ones that would never have showed up in prior testing, and only occur when there are hundreds or thousands of players within a game mode, either due to it's rarity or other issues that result in it only being a problem on higher player counts which even days worth of testing would never identify.

Plus, keep in mind that we're all only human here as well, we, like everyone else, we do indeed make mistakes every so often! Sometimes we don't get things right or may forget to fix something that is seemingly trivial. Best you can do when you find these bugs is report them in the proper location with as much detail as possible so they get fixed.

And again, I would like to reiterate that this is a beta game. It's unrealistic to expect us to identify every bug for a release, especially for a game that is in beta.

 

[ATouchscreenPlayer]

One of the main reasons I keep getting told is that its not mobile friendly

Yeah because no mobiles played it the game died

 

[GHSpaghetti]

I would also like to raise the point (which I believe was mentioned earlier in this thread) that various bugs that have popped up are ones that would never have showed up in prior testing, and only occur when there are hundreds or thousands of players within a game mode, either due to it's rarity or other issues that result in it only being a problem on higher player counts which even days worth of testing would never identify.

Plus, keep in mind that we're all only human here as well, we, like everyone else, we do indeed make mistakes every so often! Sometimes we don't get things right or may forget to fix something that is seemingly trivial. Best you can do when you find these bugs is report them in the proper location with as much detail as possible so they get fixed.

And again, I would like to reiterate that this is a beta game. It's unrealistic to expect us to identify every bug for a release, especially for a game that is in beta.

Do understand, oversights are to be expected, it is just difficult to tell how much these games are tested, the community only really want what's best for the server!

 

[Salty_Shadows]

Yeah because no mobiles played it the game died

Funniest thing was that more mobiles played it than any other platform

 

[ATouchscreenPlayer]

Funniest thing was that more mobiles played it than any other platform

Mate, the point is there wasn’t enough players for them to keep the game

 

[Salty_Shadows]

Mate, the point is there wasn’t enough players for them to keep the game

thing is i can now make it popular again ive had big cc bedrock streamers said theyd stream it w me if they added it back so getting it players now isnt an issue