Implemented The debounce modification / double clicking rule

[DarkStray]

s, that's what I said. Doubleclicking is a skill, and learning a skill shouldn't be banned.

I can double click 32 on my broken mouse. It's not a skill it depends on what mouse you get.

Not true. Doubeclicking does take some effort and practice to be able to use consistently for high cps.

I never double click nor do I go for double clicks, doesn't change the fact when I plug my old mouse in I can click 32cps with doubles. Keep in mind the first time I tried double clickign with that mouse I was getting 28-30

But there's no reason to ban it for that sole purpose, since there are many other ways that pc players already have an advantage over mobile players.

IBMM = Input Based Matchmaking. During peak hours KBM/Controller/Touch lobbies are split unless a player from a lower tier selects the harder matchmaking in player settings.

Many people have trash computers and can't get high FPS, should we ban people from using expensive setups or limit the fps people are allowed to get? There's a massive difference between 10 or even 30 fps and 1000+, and the literally only barrier between those two is money, whereas double-clicking does at least have some skill requirement (more than getting high fps at least)

fps doesn't give as much of a skill advantage as cps does. If I have 200fps and someone is getting 30 what advantage do I have over them? the average human reaction time is like 200ms. so regardless or not if I get to see a frame sooner or not doesn't give me that much of an advantage.
+I played on xbox with 20fps and wasn't garbage and outplayed everyone else even people who were getting 200+fps.
Minecraft isn't a shooter, you don't need frames to win a sword fight where someone is taking up 80% of your screenspace.

A 'legit click' would be when the mouse button bounces far enough to reach the threshold of registering a click, caused by a human hitting the mouse button. How then is the second click illegitimate? There is a real, measurable bounce in that second click.

But did the human press the button the second time? no. That's why it's illegitimate it's not a click you are actually clicking, due to mice being compact and being cheaped out on the buttons aren't designed very well, especially on light weight mice where they cheap out on the switches even further causing more doubles.
In other words, why should I, someone who clicks 18cps without doubles, be put in a disadvantage against someone who clicks my same cps but gets doubles(36cps) because I bought a different mouse?

No. I remove the artificial barrier stopping me from reaching my legitimate human limit. It's no different than buying a better computer, keyboard, or mouse to allow me to play better.

again you tapped the mouse button once, and by lowering debounce you are giving assitance to extra clicks that IS NOT your HUMAN LIMIT, that is an artificial limit,

Artificial Definition: "Not arising from natural or necessary causes" "Affected or insincere"
In other words, The natural human click was affected by insincere(not genuine) secondary bounce from the mouse causing a double click!

You also completely failed to respond to the fact that there are mouses that come with a default debounce time of 1ms, and therefore do not require this so-called 'illegal modification' (it isn't, but ok) to allow double clicking. If you're using that mouse, then apparently you're cheating because of the way you tapped your finger on the mouse button!

That is why the rule also states that double clicking is banable, to prevent people from making the excuse of "My mouses debounce time was already __"

I can normal click at around 10-11, and I can butterfly at around 12.

If you normal click '10-11" but only butterfly 12, your normal clicks are doubled.

You also keep calling double clicks not "actual CPS", yet CPS definitionally means "clicks per second", with a "click" of a mouse being the bouncing of a mouse button down beyond the mark to be counted as a click and then returning to normal. A double click, as I have already explained, is a single 'hit' of the mouse button by a finger that causes the mouse button to bounce down, up, down, and up again, for a total of two legitimate clicks.

Your finger clicks the mouse button.....
Click definition: "An instance of pressing down and releasing a button on a pointing device, such as a mouse"
Your using a totally different definition of click, which would be the sound your referring to, and not the actual definition that needs to be used here.
If I press down once, I click once, if my mouse registers the click twice that does not mean I clicked twice, I clicked once while my mouse registered it twice, the mouse can't tell the difference between a double and a regular click that's why it registers and assumes t's our inputted click, that does not make it legitimate.

Still, they shouldn't allow something which most of the bedrock community can't do (Pretty sure less than 50% are on pc)

It'es something like
60% console 30% mobile and 10% pc idk the exact numbers but the staff talk I was in on the CC discord said that was the general order of players
Console > Mobile > PC

Did you completely miss the part where I defined a "legit click"? You can't keep throwing around these terms without defining them. A 'legit click' is the action of the mouse button bouncing down far enough to be registered as a click, and then returning to the normal state, with the action be caused by human input.

Under that definition, double clicking produces 2 'legit clicks'.

Under definition you are wrong. You are referring to the sound not the actual definition of click in this case

FPS isn't the only advantage. What about ping? The only way to get better ping is to either spend money on a better internet connection or to literally move across the world to be closer to the server hosting site. Doesn't that then give people from certain continents or good financial situations unfair advantages? Should we artificially impose a delay of 500ms on everyone to make it fair?

Why can cubecraft determine where you live? That doesn't compare to how you abuse your mouse? REGARDLESS if your mouse double clicks or not when you abuse it, normal clicking without fish slapping your mouse doesn't produce double clicks. So you can still just click without doubles
I have 100Ping I can not decide to change my ping to 10
You are double clicking you have the choice to double click.
I don't have a choice to get more FPS on console, I can't chose that fact.
But the fact is you have a choice regardless of what mouse you buy to double click or not, people who buy a new pc HAVE a choice to BUY NEW hardware, but they can't just make their current hardware run better.

you keep defining a legit click as the mechanical switch bouncing back and forth, which is where debounce plays it's role. We are defining it as a single click resulting from your finger pressing the button once. Pressing the button once and getting 2, 3 or 4 clicks are all non legit clicks.

The correct definition of a click

still true that you can't double click on console or mobile

You can on both, I've done it

Not all mice can double click, which seems to be another one of the false assumptions everyone's making. Mice that don't use mechanical switches can not bounce multiple times because there isn't a physical switch to bounce. And good luck getting those doubles on a trigger or a phone!

All mice have the ability to not double click, some mice have the ability to do so. So why should some people have the advantage and not have everyone at the equal advantage?

 

[dreamydreams]

you are 100% incorrect with your reasoning and your opinion is wrong, there is no such thing as a double clicking bug or glitch, it's simply the mouse and/or intentionally installed software causing double clicks.

You are simply wrong. There is such a bug, it involves the off hand.

 

[Landon AWESOME9]

You are simply wrong. There is such a bug, it involves the off hand.

And yet you won't even send proof of such bug?

 

[dreamydreams]

And yet you won't even send proof of such bug?

You not knowing about it means it isn't a bug. Lol, that's some warped logic.

 

[DarkStray]

You are simply wrong. There is such a bug, it involves the off hand.

"Bedrock"

 

[Landon AWESOME9]

You not knowing about it means it isn't a bug. Lol, that's some warped logic.

Nowhere did I ever say this, why dont you just send the video of this bug so we know what you're talking about and how it relates to this thread.

 

[dreamydreams]

"Bedrock"

Thread is marked with the All Networks tag.

 

[Landon AWESOME9]

Thread is marked with the All Networks tag.

why don't you just send the video if this bug exists

 

[dreamydreams]

why don't you just send the video if this bug exists

Why didn't you just ask for further explanation or proof before you started saying "nO ThAt'S WrONg" when in fact you had no idea what you were talking about?

 

[Landon AWESOME9]

Why didn't you just ask for further explanation or proof before you started saying "nO ThAt'S WrONg" when in fact you had no idea what you were talking about?

Well, it seems that since you've provided no evidence of any bug relating to this thread, I was correct. So if you have the video of this bug, you should probably send it now, since there is no reason you shouldn't be able to send it. That is, if the video exists.

 

[dreamydreams]

Well, it seems that since you've provided no evidence of any bug relating to this thread, I was correct. So if you have the video of this bug, you should probably send it now, since there is no reason you shouldn't be able to send it. That is, if the video exists.

It seems that you haven't answered my question yet, interesting.

And yes, the video does exists. As a matter of fact, I could make new ones every single day, because the bug isn't getting fixed, the moderator team is aware and won't ban for it, because people can't control it.

I just don't see a reason to bother going through the progress of uploading a video for... you. Who already, before knowing anything, said "NO!!!" and is refusing to accept a bug exists. This is honestly very entertaining to me.

 

[DarkStray]

It seems that you haven't answered my question yet, interesting.

And yes, the video does exists. As a matter of fact, I could make new ones every single day, because the bug isn't getting fixed, the moderator team is aware and won't ban for it, because people can't control it.

I just don't see a reason to bother going through the progress of uploading a video for... you. Who already, before knowing anything, said "NO!!!" and is refusing to accept a bug exists. This is honestly very entertaining to me.

SO where is the current existing video that was reported to the staff team? Can you provide that link?

 

[Awabbatt]

It seems that you haven't answered my question yet, interesting.

And yes, the video does exists. As a matter of fact, I could make new ones every single day, because the bug isn't getting fixed, the moderator team is aware and won't ban for it, because people can't control it.

I just don't see a reason to bother going through the progress of uploading a video for... you. Who already, before knowing anything, said "NO!!!" and is refusing to accept a bug exists. This is honestly very entertaining to me.

It seems like you don't know what double clicking is

Double clicking is when you hit your mouse in such a way that it registers as 2 outputs. (Not to be confused with a macro)

It has no relation to Minecraft/Cubecraft, and can happen with any mouse on on any game. (Even not on games)

While the bug you are talking about might exist, it is in no way related to Double Clicking

 

[TC XD]

*Please read the entire post before voting, as I will be going over supporting arguments*

We will be talking about the rule:

Spoiler: Rule 1.3 Clicking Methods

The use of autoclickers, macros, mapping your click button to your mouse wheel, dragclicking, using multiple mice, or using a mouse that registers double clicks is not allowed. Also modifying your mouse's click function in any way via software or hardware is considered cheating and will result in a cheating ban.

1.3 - Clicking Methods​

What is debounce / double-clicking?

Double-clicking is a method of clicking a mouse that registers multiple inputs per one physical input on a mouse. For example, when you click once, two clicks register in-game rather than one. This is WITHOUT the use of ANY software or macros. How exactly does a double click work? A computer mouse registers a click usually by physical contact. It sends an electrical signal to your computer to register the click. When you click your mouse a certain way though, you can cause a "bouncing effect" where the mouse switches will register more than one electrical signal for a split second after you click your mouse. Some companies have gotten around this phenomenon by implementing a system called the "debounce delay" which will filter out the extra electrical signals. You can change how strict the filter is by modifying the debounce time. The higher it is set to, the more strict the filter.

Players are able to achieve higher CPS through double clicks when they lower the debounce time - reducing the filter's strictness.

The issue

Cubecraft has banned both double-clicking, and debounce modifying. This rule wasn't always around, until ~2 years ago when a player who goes by the name of STASI was suddenly banned for a month because they used "illegal modifications" by changing their debounce time.

Originally, this rule made sense, as Cubecraft had to consider other devices playing on the network (this was before input-based matchmaking), and they didn't want to allow PC players the advantage of using a special mouse feature - which mobile and console players cannot use. Now though, Cubecraft has input-based matchmaking. Players with a computer mouse go against other players with computer mice.

Most argue that "Changing your debounce is essentially using software to achieve higher CPS". This is true that you must use software to change debounce time, but you aren't using "cheating software" that is deliberately designed to exploit. The debounce slider is a feature in ALL SOFTWARE for gaming mice, made BY the company of the gaming mouse - not some third-party hacking client.

I would also like to take a moment to stop and really think about what debounce modifying really is. It is a FILTER to PREVENT clicks from occurring - not a slider to give you MORE clicks. Having your debounce slider at a high-strict setting is more of a handicap rather than a "normal occurrence". The filter itself is stopping legitimate electrical signals from being processed. It is NOT giving you MORE or LESS clicks. (This is not to be confused with a macro, which is software that multiplies a click after the signal is sent).

This argument is slightly weaker than the others, but I would still like to mention it. Nobody in the PvP/scrim community follows the debounce rule. Even new players that join Cubecraft for the first time will most likely have their debounce filter on a low setting. This happened recently with a YouTuber by the name of MontclairBear (147k subs) who uploaded a Cubecraft video for the first time a few days ago. The entire video is about him tellybridging/godbridging on Java 1.18 (godbridging requires a clicking method called dragclicking, which is only possible via a low-passive debounce filter). Unfortunately, I heard he is now banned from Java Cubecraft. Why did he use a low-passive debounce filter in his video in the first place? Because apart from Cubecraft, almost no other big PvP server restricts you from lowering your debounce. Hypixel for example allows debounce modification. Cubecraft is one of the only big PvP servers that prohibit low/passive debounce filtering.

Along with the last paragraph, reporting for double-clicking is practically impossible. Unless you have video evidence of the player's debounce slider at a low setting, there is not going to be enough proof to get someone punished. Players can simply argue that they were jitterclicking, or using another clicking method to achieve their CPS. For this reason too, almost everyone in the PvP community doubles.

Another argument I want to bring is that of "using hardware to give yourself an unfair advantage". If this really means what I think, then this can be generalized to "players are not allowed to use gaming mice on Cubecraft". The double-click phenomenon happens with every gaming mouse switch, this is not something that is only built into highly rare and expensive mice.

For my final argument, I want to go over "double-clicking is abusing your mouse's hardware to give yourself an advantage". Ok. So how is this any different from jitterclicking? If we are talking about a normal computer mouse, anything but normal clicking is technically abusing a mouse. There really is no difference whether you are jittering 18 cps or double-clicking 20 cps. It is all abusing your mouse to achieve more clicks per second in a block video game.

The solution

If Cubecraft is really concerned about high CPS, they should take the initiative themselves to add a CPS cap, not force each player to change a setting on their mouse's official software to filter out more CPS just to play on one server.

Thank you for reading if you've made it this far. Please try to keep an open mind about what I've said, and react to this post. This is also a slightly-heated topic, so, please do not start anything unnecessary.

Thanks.

If they were to put a cps cap it should be 20 seeing as I put match making is OPTIONAL, meaning kbm players still easily can go against mobile and controller that have their own cap of briefly 10 cps

 

[DarkStray]

If they were to put a cps cap it should be 20 seeing as I put match making is OPTIONAL, meaning kbm players still easily can go against mobile and controller that have their own cap of briefly 10 cps

20 is very high but reasonable, but cubecraft have made the excuse of "if we make the cap 20 people will just autoclick 19"

 

[buggedbeatle988]

*Please read the entire post before voting, as I will be going over supporting arguments*

We will be talking about the rule:

Spoiler: Rule 1.3 Clicking Methods

The use of autoclickers, macros, mapping your click button to your mouse wheel, dragclicking, using multiple mice, or using a mouse that registers double clicks is not allowed. Also modifying your mouse's click function in any way via software or hardware is considered cheating and will result in a cheating ban.

1.3 - Clicking Methods​

What is debounce / double-clicking?

Double-clicking is a method of clicking a mouse that registers multiple inputs per one physical input on a mouse. For example, when you click once, two clicks register in-game rather than one. This is WITHOUT the use of ANY software or macros. How exactly does a double click work? A computer mouse registers a click usually by physical contact. It sends an electrical signal to your computer to register the click. When you click your mouse a certain way though, you can cause a "bouncing effect" where the mouse switches will register more than one electrical signal for a split second after you click your mouse. Some companies have gotten around this phenomenon by implementing a system called the "debounce delay" which will filter out the extra electrical signals. You can change how strict the filter is by modifying the debounce time. The higher it is set to, the more strict the filter.

Players are able to achieve higher CPS through double clicks when they lower the debounce time - reducing the filter's strictness.

The issue

Cubecraft has banned both double-clicking, and debounce modifying. This rule wasn't always around, until ~2 years ago when a player who goes by the name of STASI was suddenly banned for a month because they used "illegal modifications" by changing their debounce time.

Originally, this rule made sense, as Cubecraft had to consider other devices playing on the network (this was before input-based matchmaking), and they didn't want to allow PC players the advantage of using a special mouse feature - which mobile and console players cannot use. Now though, Cubecraft has input-based matchmaking. Players with a computer mouse go against other players with computer mice.

Most argue that "Changing your debounce is essentially using software to achieve higher CPS". This is true that you must use software to change debounce time, but you aren't using "cheating software" that is deliberately designed to exploit. The debounce slider is a feature in ALL SOFTWARE for gaming mice, made BY the company of the gaming mouse - not some third-party hacking client.

I would also like to take a moment to stop and really think about what debounce modifying really is. It is a FILTER to PREVENT clicks from occurring - not a slider to give you MORE clicks. Having your debounce slider at a high-strict setting is more of a handicap rather than a "normal occurrence". The filter itself is stopping legitimate electrical signals from being processed. It is NOT giving you MORE or LESS clicks. (This is not to be confused with a macro, which is software that multiplies a click after the signal is sent).

This argument is slightly weaker than the others, but I would still like to mention it. Nobody in the PvP/scrim community follows the debounce rule. Even new players that join Cubecraft for the first time will most likely have their debounce filter on a low setting. This happened recently with a YouTuber by the name of MontclairBear (147k subs) who uploaded a Cubecraft video for the first time a few days ago. The entire video is about him tellybridging/godbridging on Java 1.18 (godbridging requires a clicking method called dragclicking, which is only possible via a low-passive debounce filter). Unfortunately, I heard he is now banned from Java Cubecraft. Why did he use a low-passive debounce filter in his video in the first place? Because apart from Cubecraft, almost no other big PvP server restricts you from lowering your debounce. Hypixel for example allows debounce modification. Cubecraft is one of the only big PvP servers that prohibit low/passive debounce filtering.

Along with the last paragraph, reporting for double-clicking is practically impossible. Unless you have video evidence of the player's debounce slider at a low setting, there is not going to be enough proof to get someone punished. Players can simply argue that they were jitterclicking, or using another clicking method to achieve their CPS. For this reason too, almost everyone in the PvP community doubles.

Another argument I want to bring is that of "using hardware to give yourself an unfair advantage". If this really means what I think, then this can be generalized to "players are not allowed to use gaming mice on Cubecraft". The double-click phenomenon happens with every gaming mouse switch, this is not something that is only built into highly rare and expensive mice.

For my final argument, I want to go over "double-clicking is abusing your mouse's hardware to give yourself an advantage". Ok. So how is this any different from jitterclicking? If we are talking about a normal computer mouse, anything but normal clicking is technically abusing a mouse. There really is no difference whether you are jittering 18 cps or double-clicking 20 cps. It is all abusing your mouse to achieve more clicks per second in a block video game.

The solution

If Cubecraft is really concerned about high CPS, they should take the initiative themselves to add a CPS cap, not force each player to change a setting on their mouse's official software to filter out more CPS just to play on one server.

Thank you for reading if you've made it this far. Please try to keep an open mind about what I've said, and react to this post. This is also a slightly-heated topic, so, please do not start anything unnecessary.

Thanks.

another point to add is that mobile players can get crazy "cps" on their device and can now even jump bridge. If you're on pc it's now a slight handicap because you're cps is capped and theirs isn't

 

[buggedbeatle988]

If they were to put a cps cap it should be 20 seeing as I put match making is OPTIONAL, meaning kbm players still easily can go against mobile and controller that have their own cap of briefly 10 cps

that way too low as it is easy to click 20 cps even 10 ms

 

[Landon AWESOME9]

that way too low as it is easy to click 20 cps even 10 ms

20 cps no double click??? send video???

 

[rlnostalgic]

I don't think this would be fair for the community to the extent yes fun for PC and competitive players but most players will find it completely impossible to eliminate double clickers so it's a no from me.

 

[Dreamer]

Until there is a way for staff to check players' mouse settings and click details there is not much that can be done to make it fair. Allowing this is 1 solution, cps cap is another, but ultimately they just create more issues.

If it was up to me, all mice had a slight delay build in, that you cannot change, issue fixed!