Unfair teams, teammates leave.

[Treespirit]

But maybe we should do this in private instead of in open chat here.

????why?
i don't mind that anyone sees what i say.
I'm not saying anything that's weird or wrong.

I'm not even saying that something should change XD.
The only thing i say is:
"its not fair that half or more of your team leaves."

Thats all

 

[EffeDylan]

Yahh i agree with that to just syaing it is possible

 

[ChasingRainbows]

---------------|-Eggwars |Total recource
_________|_________|_____________
Players 1 | 100%------| 100%
players 2 | 50%------|100%
players 3 | 33%------|100%
players 4 | 25%------|100%
players 5 | 20%------|100%
players 6 | 17%------|100%









---------------|- TowerDefence |Total recource
_________|______________|_____________
Players 1 | 100%--------------|100%
players 2 | 100%--------------|200%
players 3 | 100%--------------|300%
players 4 | 100%--------------|400%
players 5 | 100%--------------|500%
players 6 | 100%--------------|600%

also in TD, you can only send 1 wave of mobs every 15? second.
Thats 6 waves for the bigest team
But 1 wave for the smalles team.

I think you vastly underestimate the gold gathered from killing mobs. With a bunch of players it doesnt seem like much, but when theres many players sending mobs and your towers are doing all the killing you can basically build/send forever without running out of gold. The team with 1 player only has to send enough mobs to grind exp for one player, while the team with many has to grind exp for all the players individually. You're also oversimplifying the entire game to the gold mine while assuming every player is always generating the same amount of gold through the gold mine, which isn't how the game actually works.


You're also assuming the game starts as a 1v6, but this doesn't happen. I don't care how much you refuse to accept this fact, but neither you or anyone else is going to start a game as a 1v(n>2), it doesn't happen. Yes if a game was a 1v6 at the very beginning it would be massively unfair, but this isn't a scenario you can expect to actually happen so it shouldn't be discussed.

 

[Treespirit]

I think you vastly underestimate the gold gathered from killing mobs. With a bunch of players it doesnt seem like much, but when theres many players sending mobs and your towers are doing all the killing you can basically build/send forever without running out of gold

You asume that many players are sending mobs. And also that they are al low lvl mobs. that The towers of the small team kills them all.

The team with 1 player only has to send enough mobs to grind exp for one player, while the team with many has to grind exp for all the players individually.

Where did i speak of exp? and or did i say that was not the case?

You're also oversimplifying the entire game to the gold mine while assuming every player is always generating the same amount of gold through the gold mine, which isn't how the game actually works.

I'm not oversimplifying the entire game, i'm giving a situation that can be replicated. and doesn't the only thing I assume is that in 1 team ppl leave.
The rest of the situation is for all the players in my situation are the same. The are al the same because i'm not speaking of an incident. but about fairness

You're assuming many things:

• "you got a team that has played at least 30 second.
• they all or most of them placed towers (that you then can or keep or sell)
  
• the opposing team is not using the same strategy as you
• the opposing team sends mobs that all get killed by your towers.
  
• the opposing team does not know how the game work
• the opposing team does not all up there goldmine
• that multiple players towers of the opposing team kill the mobs

*ps to assume is to make an ass out of U and Me, YOU assume that i'm an idiot that does not know the game.
I would like to add that i never EVER

You're also assuming the game starts as a 1v6, but this doesn't happen. I don't care how much you refuse to accept this fact, but neither you or anyone else is going to start a game as a 1v(n>2), it doesn't happen. Yes if a game was a 1v6 at the very beginning it would be massively unfair, but this isn't a scenario you can expect to actually happen so it shouldn't be discussed.

Its true that you you would never start with a team with a difference of more than 1.
Thats why i like you to re read the topic name. "Unfair teams, teammates leave."
Soooo that meansss ow w8 that i do accept the fact that teams start out with a max difference of 1.

Also, i would like to tell you that i have had more than 10 games in which my team leaves within 10 seconds of the game starting.
Without placing any towers. And this is from playing less than 60games total.
Thats more dan 17% of the time i have played.
about 40% of the time 1 end up or see in the other team one of the teams i tagged.
And i would like to remind you:


I NEVER speak about that winning is not possible
INEVER speak about just one statagie

I'm speaking off FAIRNESS,

And i like to challenge you to give me a fair situation in which all players are the same. And you still think its fair.
And be my guest with using other team sizes than 1vs6.
But please do use one of the team sizes that i have tagged in this thread.
1vs3 1vs4 1vs5 1vs6 2vs5 2vs6. you may even use the 3vs6 that i could not tag.
And yes please do make sure that your teams start with 6vs6 (and dont be pitty with starting the teams with 6vs5 with 5 being the bigger team. And 4 players leaving in the last seccond of the match. to make the 6 team the smaller one 2vs5 (-_-)
There still will be a difference in each team for the total Coins and mobs they can send.


I would like the add, please calm down.
Also please stop assuming that i'm an idiot. and do not know how the game works
Because everything you say or have used in your arguments. I could refute.
But i haven't seen anything that you Could refute about my posts.

So please be nice. calm and scientific.
And think about what you are going to post next

With kind regards,
Treespirit
A lovable treant

 

[ChasingRainbows]

You asume that many players are sending mobs. And also that they are al low lvl mobs. that The towers of the small team kills them all.

The assumption that the other team sends low level mobs is a logical assumption because they HAVE to send low level mobs to farm EXP to any level of efficiency. Don't tell me people use creepers or blazes to farm exp, they use zombies and cave spiders. This is a statistical requirement, it's not feasibly avoidable. And exp, mentioned in an earlier post or not, is required ot be part of the conversation because it's part of the game. The larger team is going to need exp to unlock more powerful mobs and to upgrade their goldmines to ever afford the more powerful mobs, so they need to grind exp. They also need gold to build towers, another incentive to grind exp for better gold mine levels. To do this they need to send low level mobs. At the start of the game you can place a mage tower and a few artillery towers near the start. As you use your sword to kill zombies you will generate more gold to build more towers along the path making the zombies more manageable. If you panic you're screwed, zombies aren't very fast so even if they spam them at the beginning you have time to kill them with your sword and place towers along the way before they ever get close to your castle. Except for maybe teaguns. A few fire towers spaced out can both stop zombies and cave spiders, and are easily achievable at the beginning of a game. They won't be sending creepers or pigmen or blazes until a good bit into the game, by then you would have had more time to prepare more defenses.

I'm not oversimplifying the entire game

Yes you are. You're equating pure gold levels to winning and losing, which simply isn't true.

You're assuming many things:

• "you got a team that has played at least 30 second. (1)
• they all or most of them placed towers (that you then can or keep or sell) (2)
  
• the opposing team is not using the same strategy as you (3)
• the opposing team sends mobs that all get killed by your towers. (4)
  
• the opposing team does not know how the game work (5)
• the opposing team does not all up there goldmine (6)
• that multiple players towers of the opposing team kill the mobs (7)

1,5, and 7 are statistical assumptions. It's unlikely that a major team difference happens in 30 seconds, it's also very much possible that the other team has a player (or more than one) who is relatively new to the game. Number 7 may or may not be true, whether it's true or not it helps you. If one player's towers are killing all your mobs then that one player is rich and their teammates are poor. If it is true then no one person on the other team is rich enough to spam powerful mobs early on. There's only so much gold to go around, everyone can't have it all.

There still will be a difference in each team for the total Coins and mobs they can send.

Sure there will be a difference, but it won't be as much of a difference as you might think. Mob sending has nothing to do with team gold and everything to do with individual gold, if one person on the other team has all the gold they are the only ones who can continuously send powerful mobs. If the gold is distributed more evenly each person can't send as many mobs. The numbers may be unfair to a degree, but at the end of the game it doesn't say "Red team had their castle destroyed but they generated more gold so they win", does it? The amount of gold can be overpowered by how that gold is spent and how it is spread among a team, one player with all of, say 25 000 gold has more sending power of powerful mobs than 4 players who have 30 000 god spread among them because sending powerful mobs requires one player to have massive amounts of gold to themselves. And before you say "Nobody ever has 20k+ gold at one time" those amounts of gold are spent throughout the game by any given team on towers and exp grinding mobs and potions so wile you may not see it all at once, it's there.

I would like the add, please calm down.
Also please stop assuming that i'm an idiot. and do not know how the game works
Because everything you say or have used in your arguments. I could refute.
But i haven't seen anything that you Could refute about my posts.

So please be nice. calm and scientific.
And think about what you are going to post next

I didn't assume you were an idiot, and you haven't refuted shit. You basically said that my assumptions were wrong and yours are right. You're assuming that fairness is related to player counts or total team gold production, which isn't true. You also think I assumed that "the opposing team is not using the same strategy as you" which doesn't matter because you can change your offensive strategy as the game goes by, You can look at that kinds of towers the other team is building and send appropriate mobs for the knockout blow. You also assumed that the situation is the same for all the players, it isn't. The team with lesser players has more gold per player(which is what really counts when sending mobs or building towers) even if they have less total gold. The team with bigger players, statistically speaking, has less gold per player. You aren't looking at the big picture, you seem too focused on starting with the "more players = unfair" conclusion and finding a way to prove that. You ignored exp, you ignored gold being distributed among a team, you ignored that how effectively gold is used means more than the total amount of gold when it comes to winning, you've basically failed to mention anything that doesn't agree with you predetermined conclusion. I used to think like you, but then after I was put into these situations (2v6, 1v5, etc) I didn't complain about how unfair it was, I came up with a way to work around team numbers. I'm pointing out that teammates leaving only puts you at a disadvantage if your mindset lets it. Yes one team has more total gold and can send mobs more often, but they don't actually have an advantage in sending POWERFUL mobs. Zombies and spiders and pigmen and creepers don't win games, giants, swarms of blazes, multiple magma cubes, that's what wins games and the smaller team has more power to send those than the bigger team.

Big picture my friend, don't get caught up on how many players the other team has or how much gold they have in total because, frankly, it makes little difference in this game. Gold in tower defense is like money in pro sports, spending money doesn't guarantee wins.