Java Add Support For BAC

[CommunistCactus]

From what I could tell, it's a client-side mod that players must use in order to play on a server.

Congratulations! You can't read. Turns out @FartiliciousSwoleMan was right. I'm not gonna sugarcoat that anymore.
This has been addressed THREE times now in this thread:

Also I mentioned nothing about requiring it

You are not forced to use it @Younisco @TheBrownster .

1. This is not mandatory.

Please actually read what we're talking about to avoid unnecessary arguments like this. Also applies to what you said to Epicfartofdoom btw.

 

[MagnificentSpam]

The picture in the op seems to be misleading, 1.12.2 is not available in the badlion client, someone posted this on discord yesterday. I personally can't try this since there it also doesn't support Linux (or any OS other than windows).
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/310059423966035968/452362805027536896/Capture.PNG
We all know that the definition of "soon" can be somewhat flexible at times. It would be infeasible to make the badlion client mandatory at this point.

Many people here seem to have a lot of confidence in it, I don't believe they will be able to maintain a completely secure system, even only on Windows. If the client becomes popular, there will be exploits, probably fewer than without it and they might be fixed quickly, but you won't be able to blindly trust that a badlion client user is not cheating.

If it is not mandatory, I don't see how it will reduce the amount of cheaters at all. Those that don't have a bypass for the badlion client will just not use it. You can require it for private tournaments if you want to exclude Linux/Mac users, but I don't think the server should be involved in that at all.

 

[A pigeon]

ChewBACca

 

[Shrek Trained Me]

If it is not mandatory, I don't see how it will reduce the amount of cheaters at all. Those that don't have a bypass for the badlion client will just not use it. You can require it for private tournaments if you want to exclude Linux/Mac users, but I don't think the server should be involved in that at all.

It sees if the person you are fighting is legit, so if you fight a blatant cheater sentinel will ban him after 4 months but BAC will ban him the first 4 seconds he starts to fight with you.

 

[MagnificentSpam]

It sees if the person you are fighting is legit, so if you fight a blatant cheater sentinel will ban him after 4 months but BAC will ban him the first 4 seconds he starts to fight with you.

But that is unrelated to the badlion client? That cheater (unless he has a bypass for the badlion client) isn't using it himself. I wouldn't mind cubecraft using a server side component of BAC, I just thought the client side part was pretty much the point of it.

 

[CommunistCactus]

It would be infeasible to make the badlion client mandatory at this point.

Refer to the comment directly above you.

If the client becomes popular, there will be exploits,

Which is like a million times harder to program than an exploit for Sentinel, since BAC is client-sided. Therefore, it's still MUCH better than Sentinel.

It sees if the person you are fighting is legit, so if you fight a blatant cheater sentinel will ban him after 4 months but BAC will ban him the first 4 seconds he starts to fight with you.

They are banned in waves too, so no 4 seconds.
https://client.badlion.net/faq

I wouldn't mind cubecraft using a server side component of BAC, I just thought the client side part was pretty much the point of it.

Yes, the client-sidedness is kinda the whole point of it.

 

[MagnificentSpam]

Refer to the comment directly above you.

If it is not mandatory, I don't see how it will reduce the amount of cheaters at all.

I wanted to look at both options. Either it's mandatory or it is not.
Say it is not mandatory, developing a cheat is 100 times harder than with the vanilla client and it gets fixed 3 month later with the next update. Those players that use hacks that the badlion client can catch will simply not use it, so it will pretty much never catch a cheater. The only use is to provide an argument for legit players that get banned accidentially. I don't think that it's worth to blindly disable Sentinel for badlion client users, even it they are unlikely to cheat, because they only make a very small percentage of the playerbase.

Having that option to make plausible that your ban was a mistake might be good, for me personally absolutely not worth using the client. I don't think it would reduce the amount of cheaters or make the job of the anti cheat dev easier. It might slightly reduce the amount of wrong manual reports, but probably not by a lot. Legit players get hackusated a lot but I doubt many of those hackusaters actually go through with reporting.

 

[0ffense]

It sees if the person you are fighting is legit, so if you fight a blatant cheater sentinel will ban him after 4 months but BAC will ban him the first 4 seconds he starts to fight with you.

The badlion client checks the person who is using it only, it has no way of detecting if the person you are fighting is legit.

The picture in the op seems to be misleading, 1.12.2 is not available in the badlion client, someone posted this on discord yesterday. I personally can't try this since there it also doesn't support Linux (or any OS other than windows).
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/310059423966035968/452362805027536896/Capture.PNG
We all know that the definition of "soon" can be somewhat flexible at times. It would be infeasible to make the badlion client mandatory at this point.

Many people here seem to have a lot of confidence in it, I don't believe they will be able to maintain a completely secure system, even only on Windows. If the client becomes popular, there will be exploits, probably fewer than without it and they might be fixed quickly, but you won't be able to blindly trust that a badlion client user is not cheating.

If it is not mandatory, I don't see how it will reduce the amount of cheaters at all. Those that don't have a bypass for the badlion client will just not use it. You can require it for private tournaments if you want to exclude Linux/Mac users, but I don't think the server should be involved in that at all.

Ok, I don't think you have complete confidence in this which is a problem. It is a breakthrough in methods used to stop hackers. Meaning because of the way it works, there is no way of exploiting it. It's kind of like Bitcoin, Bitcoin is unhackable because of the way it works. Don't misinterpret me, I am not saying that Bitcoin works like the Badlion client, they are two completely different things. I am just using Bitcoin as an example of something that is unhackable.

I wanted to look at both options. Either it's mandatory or it is not.
Say it is not mandatory, developing a cheat is 100 times harder than with the vanilla client and it gets fixed 3 month later with the next update. Those players that use hacks that the badlion client can catch will simply not use it, so it will pretty much never catch a cheater. The only use is to provide an argument for legit players that get banned accidentially. I don't think that it's worth to blindly disable Sentinel for badlion client users, even it they are unlikely to cheat, because they only make a very small percentage of the playerbase.

Having that option to make plausible that your ban was a mistake might be good, for me personally absolutely not worth using the client. I don't think it would reduce the amount of cheaters or make the job of the anti cheat dev easier. It might slightly reduce the amount of wrong manual reports, but probably not by a lot. Legit players get hackusated a lot but I doubt many of those hackusaters actually go through with reporting.

I don't completely understand what you mean. You can't hide any hacks while using the client, and if you don't use the hacks you will still be banned just because you have them. The only way to hack is with injectable clients because you can't launch a client, and be on the badlion client at the same time. So you can use Vape, Spook, Cyanide, etc but you will still be banned. A side note, if big servers start using the client, then Cubecraft might end up like Mineplex, the go-to server to cheat on.

 

[CommunistCactus]

Either it's mandatory or it is not.

Erm, no.

Those players that use hacks that the badlion client can catch will simply not use it, so it will pretty much never catch a cheater.

2. It prevents players from being false banned by Sentinel

6. This opens a lot of possibilities for competitive modes.

And it also shows other players who is legit and who isn't.

because they only make a very small percentage of the playerbase.

How can you tell? It hasn't even been implemented yet.
GommeHD already implemented this btw and it's doing great over there.

 

[MagnificentSpam]

Erm, no.

What third option do you propose? Mandatory for some players?

It is a breakthrough in methods used to stop hackers. Meaning because of the way it works, there is no way of exploiting it. It's kind of like Bitcoin, Bitcoin is unhackable because of the way it works. Don't misinterpret me, I am not saying that Bitcoin works like the Badlion client, they are two completely different things. I am just using Bitcoin as an example of something that is unhackable.

I don't think it is impossible to hack. If it was, they could publish the source code so people could now what it does. Pretty sure it depends on security by obscurity. Also emulated inputs are an example that probably can't be caught. Run it in a vm, sniff the packets in the host to replicate the game state and send the appropriate input. Obviously not easy to make but impossible to detect if done correctly.

I don't completely understand what you mean. You can't hide any hacks while using the client, and if you don't use the hacks you will still be banned just because you have them. The only way to hack is with injectable clients because you can't launch a client, and be on the badlion client at the same time. So you can use Vape, Spook, Cyanide, etc but you will still be banned. A side note, if big servers start using the client, then Cubecraft might end up like Mineplex, the go-to server to cheat on.

The badlion client can't stop hackers if they can choose not to use it, even if it worked 100%. At best it can be a way for some legit players to proof they are not hacking.

And it also shows other players who is legit and who isn't.

How does it show who isn't legit? Please don't say if they were legit they'd use the badlion client.

 

[CommunistCactus]

What third option do you propose? Mandatory for some players?

How about how everyone has done it and just make it not mandatory?
And don't come say "hurr durr it won't work" because that would just be denying reality, just look at how cheat-proof badlion became thanks to this. GommeHD already implemented this and more are to follow. We don't want to stay behind with this one. Oh, just checked, 2 more server joined.

Please don't say if they were legit they'd use the badlion client.

No, other way around. If they're using the badlion client, they're either legit or banned in 4 minutes.

 

[MagnificentSpam]

Either it's mandatory or it is not.

How about how everyone has done it and just make it not mandatory?

That fits in mystatement. Either it is or it is not. I just wanted to look at both options in that post.

No, other way around. If they're using the badlion client, they're either legit or banned in 4 minutes.

They don't use it.

Now after seeing more of this, I agree that it can be a useful way to show (even though not with 100% certainty) that you are not hacking. I can see that working.

 

[0ffense]

Ok, if we added this how would it cause any harm. It only brings good stuff. Don't give me that "Well, it can probably be bypassed and probably will be bypassed" because that's just... not true lol. I already said it's impossible because of how it works. It is unlike anything ever used before in terms of catching hackers on Minecraft.


I'm just, confused on how there are so many people against this. How would this harm you in any way if it is
Not essential to play with.

 

[MagnificentSpam]

I already said it's impossible because of how it works.

I don't believe that only because you say it. Where is the exact documentation of what it does? Even if it worked perfectly, I don't think it would be able to catch a single hacker, beause they will not install it. If I am hacking, why would I voluntarily install a client side anti cheat if I don't know that I can bypass it?

if we added this how would it cause any harm. It only brings good stuff

I don't want a stigma for normal players like "that guy is probably hacking because he's not using the badlion client" or an ingame limitation like banning normal players from competitive events. Other than that, it adding support wouldn't cause harm and I admit it might be useful as a tool for legit players to prove their innocence.

 

[CommunistCactus]

I don't think it would be able to catch a single hacker,

How about 3381 single hackers? Now you might say "but sentinel banned more", remember what you said first, then consider badlion is a lot smaller, then consider all the alts (which don't work with this client) and then consider all the false bans.

 

[0ffense]

@Younisco or @Tacosbefriends are you having any second thoughts on this at all?

 

[TheDarkSavage]

Short suggestion, get a partnership with BAC to end help end cheating. It can be used as a party friend or duel filter.
View attachment 146417

I agree with these people:

To me, it’s a lose-lose situation with this.
If we make it so that every player has to download it to join the server, it will limit the players that can access the server, and some developers will probably attempt to crack or bypass through the client to add some sort of illegal client, nullifying the use of it.
If we make it so it’s an optional client to download, then nothing will really change, as people will not go through the efforts of installing a client if it’s optional.

Definitely would never install that. It's designed to do stuff I don't want and I don't know what it does. The minecraft client is well understood and people decompile every version so you know it doesn't do anything too weird. Also it doesn't work on Linux or Apple so I couldn't even install it if I wanted to.

I don't really see the point of adding it as optional. If it's just for private matches, can't you verify the client yourself? Maybe the client should have a built in feature that shows wether other players in your game use it.

I highly doubt we will ever require all players to download a 3rd party client just to join the server. That would severely limit the amount of people who would play and limit the amount of people who would join for the first time. I personally would not go through all the hassle of downloading all this client side stuff just to join a server that I have not played on before. Much easier just to move on to another one. We are more of a casual server, that is, not competitive.

 

[0ffense]

I agree with these people:

Ok well, I'm gonna say why you're wrong before @CommunistCactus starts mocking you because those two quotes have already been addressed 4 times in this thread.

You are not forced to use it Younisco TheBrownster

To Younisco

1. This is not mandatory.

Also I mentioned nothing about requiring it

I'm just, confused on how there are so many people against this. How would this harm you in any way if it is
Not essential to play with.

 

[TheDarkSavage]

Ok well, I'm gonna say why you're wrong before @CommunistCactus starts mocking you because those two quotes have already been addressed 4 times in this thread.

If it's not mandatory, then no-one would use it. Why would you get a modification that prevents you from hacking? The only people who might do it would be people without hacks anyway. I know that it's a hassle to always open in forge, because Minecraft is more laggy then. Besides, it's not for Mac/Linux users, so I would say about 40%+ of the community wouldn't be able to download it if they wanted to.

Oh, and thanks for telling me why I'm wrong :)

 

[0ffense]

If it's not mandatory, then no-one would use it. Why would you get a modification that prevents you from hacking? The only people who might do it would be people without hacks anyway. I know that it's a hassle to always open in forge, because Minecraft is more laggy then. Besides, it's not for Mac/Linux users, so I would say about 40%+ of the community wouldn't be able to download it if they wanted to.

Oh, and thanks for telling me why I'm wrong :)

Read this:

Imagine how much more free time crazymanjr would have if BAC support was added
And imagine how much more free time the staff who look at reports would have if BAC support was added due to players not reporting suspicious players if their BLC notifies them that their suspicious opponent is also using BLC

Hopefully the "this is not a competitive server!" brigade realise that BAC support isn't just for competitive servers

people don’t have to use optifine but they use it
people don’t have to use 5zig but they use it
people don’t have to play minecraft but they do
you don’t have to be sr mod on this forum but you are


loads of people use bac, at least 3 quarters of competitive pvpers use it, and by implementing this you could even potentially attract them to the server

2. It prevents players from being false banned by Sentinel
6. This opens a lot of possibilities for competitive modes.