Mid Camping, Bows, Potions and More.

[Gainfullterror]

Cheaper shields and more expensive bows would ruin the game for me, as the value and usability of bows would be even worse than it is now.

9 out of 10 players that are decent at Eggwars get a bow before anything else.
What do you mean, "usability of bows would be even worse than it is now"?

Also, I think people should just deal with campers and leave the game if it's that annoying. We shouldn't need items that would unbalance the game to beat them.

Soooo why do ender pearls exist then? Ender pearls are also an item used to counter a specific strategy.
In fact, ender pearls are way more safe & easy to use compared to levitation.

I think the real problem here is the punch bow, not specifically mid camping. Increase the price of punch bows/arrows and it will take longer for mid campers to get to mid, buy a bow, and come back to mid, and that should give the other teams enough time to build to mid. Increasing the punch bow price would mean that fights would take insanely long in OP mode though because people chug gapples, so maybe the gapple prices should also be increased.

Actually, the power bow is about as annoying as a punch bow. If they got power early on, that means that you're a 2 to 3 hit kill provided the void doesn't have anything to say about it.

 

[Qin Shihuangdi]

I wanted to make a post relating back to what caused this whole "Mid Camping" panic in the first place - the emerald generators!

The day before the emerald generator update was released, I played three games on CamperDaSea - or was it?

All three games I played, at least two teams rushed, including mine. In one game, all but two teams played an aggressive playstyle.

Wanna know how long these games took? 14 minutes, 12 minutes, and one took just 9 minutes.

But want to know what happened after the emerald gens? Mid campers! Every game since then (except the game I played hardcore on) there has been a mid camping team. And these teams are not easy by any means. Let me describe one of these games (Note: I might not have the right team colors, but hopefully you understand)

I chose red team on normal mode and went straight to purple speed bridging. I encountered some opposition, but still eliminated them without too much difficulty.

But, I noticed yellow was already at mid. Which meant, I had to hurry up - and do it FAST. I kept my wood sword, grabbed 2 steak, and started speed bridging right away. I got to the jellyfish no problems. But, just as I was about to reach jumping distance of the bridge - BOOM power bow shot from their base.

So, I know have half a bridge out of purple, a stacked and very good mid camping team, and three other teams that are clueless as to what to do. What do you expect us to do? By the way, cyan had a full bridge to mid that yellow did NOT break - they just could not snatch ANY diamonds from yellow! And gray was stuck between us and cyan, so they HAD to go to mid, and pink was in a similar situation - although they did try building towards yellow. So, my first course of action was to finish the bridge out of purple and make it to yellow's bridge. This went better than expected and actually did the last 15 blocks on my first try. I had 4 choices:

• Attack yellow's base an try to win the 1 vs 1 against the guy with the power bow and iron armor with leather on myself
• Attack mid and try to win a 2 vs 1 against the two other yellow guys, who are just as stacked
• Try to go over to pink to try to divert yellow and make a sneak attack
• Sneak through mid and try to attack cyan before heading over to pink

The first two options would get me killed and the third simply wouldn't work, so I had to go with the fourth option. So, I had to sneak into mid. After being taken down to 3 hearts in 2 seconds, I took a leap onto cyan's bridge. After that I had to p
After some tough fights, I'd eliminated both cyan and pink. By now, yellow had diamond armor because of the emerald generator. So, there was one way to kill them. Guess when they'd run over the bridge an fire a TnT Cannon onto a 1 block wide bridge at the perfect time. No thank you. Then I just left the game.

I think the real problem here is the punch bow, not specifically mid camping. Increase the price of punch bows/arrows and it will take longer for mid campers to get to mid, buy a bow, and come back to mid, and that should give the other teams enough time to build to mid. Increasing the punch bow price would mean that fights would take insanely long in OP mode though because people chug gapples, so maybe the gapple prices should also be increased.

And tbh I've not seen many mid campers in games at all, and I've won 100% of my games where people attempt to mid camp, so either they were awful mid campers and not looking at bridges, or it shows that mid campers are usually garbage at pvp (although I've not seen enough to be able to judge yet).

And just get a diamond sword instead? That's what I do anyways. It's not any less broken with a sword. It's harder to stop them from getting in sure, but it's much easier to kill them.

If you want to find hard mid campers, go on a map with emerald generators on normal mode - preferably UnderDaSea.

Honestly, I don't think too much of this stuff needs to be added. Levitation potions would be nice, but I definitely don't want invisibility potions. Cheaper shields and more expensive bows would ruin the game for me, as the value and usability of bows would be even worse than it is now. Also, I think people should just deal with campers and leave the game if it's that annoying. We shouldn't need items that would unbalance the game to beat them.

Seriously? I don't even understand what you're trying to go at.

Read that text wall people ^

 

[Qin Shihuangdi]

I'm also going to start up a new post here called The Scale. Before I get started, here's a scale I'll be referring to throughout this entire process.

Tier 1 = Best players, generally top 1%, very hard to kill
2 = Very good, hard to kill, top 5%
3 = Above Average, Moderately Hard to Kill, top 20%
4 = Slightly Above Average - 20 to 50%
5 = Slightly Below Average - 50% to 60%
6 = Below Average - 60 to 90%
7 = What Am I doing? - Bottom 10%

Although I can't know exactly where I fall, I'd estimate that I'd fall in tier 2 or the upper end of tier 3 just based off my recent eggwars playing.

Many people that comment, for whatever reason, continue to think that mid campers are on the same level as base campers, and they're just camping mid instead of their home base. This is wrong. Base campers tend to be between levels 5 and 7. Mid campers generally fall in the lower end of tier 2 or the upper-middle of tier 3, which means that they generally, on average, are slightly worse than I am. But the significantly better position and their way better gear just completely eliminates the PvP edge and I'm still going to get destroyed.

And no, playing aggressively, contrary to how you think it does, does not even come close to alienating the mid camper problem. Generally, you can only eliminate one team and start bridging to the second one before teams can get a diamond sword or punch bow. So, basically, you have to guess who's mid camping. It seems that many of your "solutions" involve a lot of guessing and hoping you chose the right people to go after. You can get more islands on smaller maps like storm or toys, but still mid camping is a giant problem on the maps that have more than 2 player teams. And I can guarantee people can get a bow before you eliminate every team - it's just not going to happen. So, basically what I'm saying is that the only way to take out mid campers is to do it yourself. So stop with these lame excuses "You can beat them".

And for the sake of it, let's explain another thing - which is how well mid camping works on every map.

God Tier - Unbeatable, way too far to effectively get them out

Kingdom - Even if you beat them to mid, they'll confine you to your base. And let's say, GOOD LUCK getting out of there. Even if you do, you'll have an extremely hard fight at mid as you only have 1 of each generator at your home base.

Aztec - Same as Kingdom, but not as bad considering you have 5 iron generators.

Space - Same as above, far too difficult even with the diamonds on Sun and Earth

CAMPERDASEA - By far the hardest map to deal with them, as they have emeralds and there aren't any sub-mids to collect from, plus the horrible middle shape makes it extremely hard to escape.

Mushrooms - Knockback 2 Shroom

Dwarven - Far too easy to just cover up 1 diamond gen and keep running around endlessly. Too far between home islands.

Instruments - Same as Kingdom and Aztec

Fairground - Read Gainful's post a few posts back

Garden - The sub-mids don't hold anything, and since the diamond gens are right next to each other this still gets a spot in god tier.

Magic (High) - If you have a punch bow and your opponent didn't load up on TnT, there's no way you can get people camping the top diamond generator.

Mega Tier - A tad bit easier, but still nearly impossible to stop them in the first place

Oriental - Having the gens in the building makes it a tad easier

Treehouse - Although they have no way to keep you from reaching mid, getting to them is going to be an absolute nightmare. You have to go way up and they can block the stairway going upwards.

Teaparty - This would normally be placed in God Tier, but due to the mid being extremely un-compact and the sheer number of people you need to fight off, it's much easier to snatch diamonds from them. @Dotsially will disagree with this though ;)

Magic (Low) - I would place this in middle tier, but removing the water stream made this tougher to reach the upper diamond generator. Although, the diamond gens aren't good so I might move this to middle tier.

Middle Tier - Still extremely hard to fight them, but you might be able to prevent them

Storm - Since the islands are so close and middle is pretty far, you're bound to encounter a rusher pretty quickly. However, if the mid campers set up correctly it's pretty impossible to reach them.

Most Solo Maps - I can't really think of them off the top of my head, but some of these are Stronghold, MLG, Candy, Village, Teepee, Tropical, and Nightmare.

Forest - This map goes extremely quickly normally, but if the people rushing encounter a tough team it can set up mid campers.

Western - Easy to rush, but some of the emerald gens can set up mid camping

Mansion - It's much easier to defend your egg here than Rome, so people don't rush every game. This could be Trash Tier in Normal, but in OP this is definitely Middle Tier.

Trash Tier - Hard to set up mid camping due to connected islands or having extremely quick rushing

Toys - Diamond gens aren't very good - and there's almost always 2 or more teams rushing

Mine - Connected Mid

End - Connected Mid

City - Connected Mid

Safari - Connected Mid

Technology - Many submids, the actual mid isn't much better, good rushing

Impossible Tier - No mid to camp!

Minions - self explanatory

I know I forgot some maps, let me know which ones.

 

[CommunistCactus]

God Tier - Unbeatable, way too far to effectively get them out

Kingdom - Even if you beat them to mid, they'll confine you to your base. And let's say, GOOD LUCK getting out of there. Even if you do, you'll have an extremely hard fight at mid as you only have 1 of each generator at your home base.

Aztec - Same as Kingdom, but not as bad considering you have 5 iron generators.

Space - Same as above, far too difficult even with the diamonds on Sun and Earth

CAMPERDASEA - By far the hardest map to deal with them, as they have emeralds and there aren't any sub-mids to collect from, plus the horrible middle shape makes it extremely hard to escape.

Mushrooms - Knockback 2 Shroom

Dwarven - Far too easy to just cover up 1 diamond gen and keep running around endlessly. Too far between home islands.

Instruments - Same as Kingdom and Aztec

Mega Tier - A tad bit easier, but still nearly impossible to stop them in the first place

Oriental - Having the gens in the building makes it a tad easier

Challenge accepted. Will make videos of me mid camping on all of them.

 

[Ahs_Master]

Wow my mouth is open how you play

 

[StrafeMaster]

I'm not a man of intros so let's get on with it.
(Just read the whole thread before commenting, not doing so only makes yourself look stupid, with that said,)

Mid camping is a broken problem strategy that is ruining eggwars.
Let me explain. First of all, some quotes from various people:


Have you read all that? Great! You should now have a basic understanding of what mid camping is and why it is such a great deal. Now let me give you an example of your average game against a mid camper:

(all credits go to @Donald J. Trump , man, your text walls are so good you should put one on the Mexican border)
By now, you should understand that this strategy is absolutely devastating and not making the game any better.
Now, because some people are not that great at understanding a wall of text, I decided to make a video explaining it. It's only 8 minutes, so it doesn't hurt to give it a look. Here it is:

You watched all that? Great!

Spoiler: Here is another example

But Kronos, that is only the map space (and Aztec if you read the text) / But Kronos, that's only OP mode! Sure these problems don't exist on other maps with normal items?

Spoiler: Oh they do.

Spoiler: But Kronos I think mid camping isn't a problem because..

"It's actually a valid strategy"

Spoiler: But Kronos I think mid camping isn't a problem because..

Oh yes it is, so is teaming and base camping. It's a valid strategy, but is it making the game any better? NO.
"You just have to stop it before it happens and it's your own fault if you don't / Go offensive in the beginning / Rush everyone"
As seen in my videos, all it takes is 1 punch bow by 1 player out of maybe 40. It's just not a valid argument. The only way to prevent an enemy from mid camping is by mid camping yourself, still making mid camping a problem.
"Just go to their egg"
They don't care about their egg, they won't die because they have all the gear in the world.
The Oh so populair: "But it's part of the game"
That something is a part of the game doesn't make it good. Lowpixel's bedwars has very little issues with campers and is immensely popular, even taking quite a lot of players from eggwars.
"Just keep respawning and try again and put your valuables in a chest"
You mean dieing over and over again without reaching anything?
"Just split up"
Will guarantee your death.

Alright, enough examples. Mid camping is clearly a problem, it's pretty hard to deny that now.
So what do we do about it?
First of all, the solution has to be available for gold or iron, since you will have no access to mid, and therefore diamonds. Secondly, it shouldn't be too exploitable, and third and most importantly: It has to work. With these factors in mind, what solutions are there?

There are some suggestions, however most are either pretty over-complicated and hard to implement, too exploitable or not practical, so I tried to come up with a few simple and viable solutions, here they are:

Let's start with the main suggestion: Adding Invisibility potions and Levitation potions.
These would be 32 gold each, and would last for 20 seconds. Why exactly?
Since they are available for gold, it's accessible to most starting islands. They are not too exploitable since a flying target won't be hard to hit, and it's quite a price to pay just to get to another island, (remember that once there not all your problems will suddenly disappear) and they are practical: Not hard to implement, not hard to understand, and not hard to use. Seems reasonable huh? I thought so, and therefore, I decided to actually try it instead of just talking a bunch of theory about it:

Spoiler: But Kronos....

"This would cause constant running and hopping between islands, just like late stage OP games / Campers would run away when you pearl to them"
It wouldn't. As you can see in the video, it takes only 3 shots to kill someone flying with a punch bow, and only 2 shots with a power bow + You can knock him further from the islands into the nothingness with your punch bow letting them fall to their death.
"But they can keep their armor on, what do they care that you see them flying?"
Since they have quite a lot of gold to pull this off multiple times, you should have enough gold to buy some (slowness) arrows and blow them out of the sky. You would kill them before they can even reach mid.
"But armor in OP is much stronger"
In OP there already is an endless game of chasing going on, I don't think levitation potions would add so much to it.
"But they can fly with a shield"
And then fall to their deaths in the void because flying with a shield is pretty slow.
"But they can have a lot of potions"
Which means you have a lot of arrows and also probably enough to follow him, whether it be by a normal bridge or by using potions yourself.
"But they wouldn't be seen when going away because they also have invis potions"
Since you were already in a fight, the enemy should have some arrows in their body (which take long to despawn) which completely destroys the use of it + Even if they didn't, they had to take off their armor first making them very vulnerable to your sword and other weapons.
"They'd be available too early"
32 gold is not really available very early, and since you want to use them early why not use a normal bridge since it's cheaper and nobody has a bow yet anyway.
"People can use invisibility potions to hide in a corner forever"
You have a compass + Potion particles + It's only 20 seconds + Drinking one makes noise.
"But you can sneak up behind someone and knock them off the island"
That's kinda the whole goal. Getting rid of the enemy somehow.
"You'll just shoot them to mid"
They'd be dead before they reach it due to the damage + you can steer them away from it.
"It's too overpowered for it's price"
The thing that is too overpowered here is mid camping. The potions are quite a lot of gold for only bringing you to the other side, not to mention reaching the other side doesn't automatically mean you've won. You still have to kill them.

It's not the best eggwars simulator, but it's good enough:

(I know, it's not actually me using the potions, I tried it, but siblings are siblings you know...)

Alright, now that that's all done and talked about, onto the next suggestion:
Make shields cheaper.
Why is it that a bow is 8 diamonds, but a shield 30? It just doesn't make any sense. Shields are an effective counter against campers in general, as well as mid campers, so I don't see why this hasn't changed yet.

Now the last suggestion:
Increase the price of bows.
A shield is 30 diamonds making it hard to counter, a punch bow + a camper slows down the game too freaking much, so just change it.

Hope you all like it. Make sure to comment what you think about it. (but only if you have read everything)

TL;DR:
No, read the thread, not just a summary, otherwise just don't comment, it's only making you look stupid.
Alright I'll give you one anyway, but don't comment before reading it all ok? Good: TL;DR Mid camping is a problem and levitation potions and invisibility potions are a well possible solution.










BOO

So many camping posts XDDDD

 

[Deleted member 48685]

It has come to my attention that UnderDaSea is used a lot in these kind of threads. If people don't want to play CampWars, first of all, play a different map, one that does not involve emeralds to stimulate mid camping!
PS: Emerald gen *****s in my opinion

 

[CommunistCactus]

So many camping posts XDDDD

Please don't place any usess messages, not only are you not contributing to anything, you are also breaking the forum rules.

Thanks in advance

 

[Qin Shihuangdi]

I recorded myself doing a game of mid camping on dwarven (this map is really easy to camp on) below: (My OBS wasn't working so I had to use Bandicam). The video starts approximately 35 seconds after the start of the game.
Events: 0:36 - Diamond Sword in Hand
2:06 - Punch Bow in Hand
Some time around 8 minutes - All mid gens maxed

And only once did someone get by me, and when they did I just rushed them.

I'd recommend watching the video at 2x speed. Look at inventory at 12:10.

I also got an EXTREMELY good video of oriental mid camping. I'll post it tomorrow - it's 1 AM over here.

 

[CommunistCactus]

Challenge accepted. Will make videos of me mid camping on all of them.

Well, me and @Donald J. Trump did a lot of maps today, so prepare.

 

[Qin Shihuangdi]

 

[Qin Shihuangdi]

MORE:

 

[CommunistCactus]

Kingdom - Even if you beat them to mid, they'll confine you to your base. And let's say, GOOD LUCK getting out of there. Even if you do, you'll have an extremely hard fight at mid as you only have 1 of each generator at your home base.

Tada.
EDIT: Great, the thumbnail contains a typo.

 

[CommunistCactus]

Instruments - Same as Kingdom and Aztec

 

[Gainfullterror]

I didn't record it, but I managed to mid camp on Kingdom & it went well.
One of the reactions of the other team:

he's muted, dw

We're not the only ones that despise this "strategy"

 

[Laskyy]

Struggling with Mid Campers? https://gyazo.com/399735e0d2afe1c8774243aadc6076ef

 

[CommunistCactus]

Struggling with Hackers? https://gyazo.com/399735e0d2afe1c8774243aadc6076ef

FTFY

 

[_The13thDoctor_]

I'm nutreal to this, I like Egg Wars the way it is and to be honest I don't want to ruin it any further than this new update is going to do.

 

[Qin Shihuangdi]

I'm nutreal to this, I like Egg Wars the way it is and to be honest I don't want to ruin it any further than this new update is going to do.

What's ruining the game is mid camping, not invis and levitation.

 

[Gainfullterror]

I don't want to ruin it any further than this new update is going to do.

Elaborate? It'd help if you have a reasoning to your opinion. We'd be able to work something out that way.