Implemented Remove This Map

[Eli]

So this has probably been my most delayed suggestion thread ever, I've had this thread in the back of my mind poking me for what seemed like months and now, with the recent featuring of BlockWars Core, I've decided to finally make it. The suggestion is pretty simple and straightforward, I’m asking for the removal of the BlockWars map “Nuclear”. And I will give my reasons why:

Nuclear is BlockWars’ most infamous map, you either love it or hate it. Chances are, you hate it and you’re not to blame, this map is absolutely terrible.

• Credits to @Andyyy for these calculations, this is the distance from flag to flag of 8 different BlockWars maps and the time it takes to travel from one flag to another:

So looking at this data one could say the average BlockWars map has a flag to flag distance of about 60-110 Blocks. And takes the player an average of 15s to travel through. Now all these maps work fine, long games aren’t as common and camping is rarely an issue.

I want you to guess the flag to flag distance of the Nuclear map, then click the spoiler to see if you were right.

Spoiler: ”Nuclear Flag to Flag Distance”

I bet you didn’t expect that… Nuclear is almost twice as big as any other BlockWars map. And it takes the player twice the time to get from one flag to another.

So you get an idea of how enormous the proportions of this map are, here is Castlewars:

And here is Nuclear:

Having such a big map is inevitably gonna ruin gameplay, when it’s CTF mode, games take a painfully long amount of time and result in being extremely tedious and boring. Do you want to wait a whole minute walking around the map until you finally find some action? And when it’s core it’s even worse, the gamemode is already super slow paced, with a gigantic map like this, games become as long as they can get. Not to mention, most kits become useless when distance is so determining, and most players find themselves limited to use the Runner kit (speed II) because all other kits are just incredibly slow in this map, hence become useless.

So please, remove this awful map already.

Thanks for reading! Any type of Feedback is appreciated, and don’t forget to vote on the poll!

 

[Alexp192]

Cubecraft have big and small maps of all modalities. Example: in team skywars the map "trees" is giant, but "fruit" is small. In team eggwars tea party is giant but toys is very small. Why not this is blockwars?

 

[_The13thDoctor_]

Unpopular opinion, me and my friends like big maps and it’s the only one if it’s kind. Finding servers for it is rare so I’d say leave it as is. It’s not the end of the world. I’d rather see an edit “smaller” version then full removal.

 

[Andyyy]

Unpopular opinion, me and my friends like big maps and it’s the only one if it’s kind. Finding servers for it is rare so I’d say leave it as is. It’s not the end of the world. I’d rather see an edit “smaller” version then full removal.

We have tried to build a small one a few times now and it doesn't work without having to scale everything down which takes a lot of time. It's not just because it's big, it's also just dull and ugly. Trying to revive it is not worth the effort.

 

[Eli]

Unpopular opinion, me and my friends like big maps and it’s the only one if it’s kind. Finding servers for it is rare so I’d say leave it as is. It’s not the end of the world. I’d rather see an edit “smaller” version then full removal.

Unpopular opinion? Sorry but that just about shows you never play BlockWars, I've played BlockWars since 2016 and most my friends/people I met absolutely despise this map. You and your friends like big maps? So you like 10 minute matches that could take 3 minutes? You like having to walk around for an entire minute before you get to do something exciting? I don't want to point this out but um, the voting results are open #1 and #5 on the leaderboard voted in favor of the removal of this map. And they, more than anyone know the game and know how annoying it can be to have this map around.. You and your friends are not the majority, and yours is the unpopular opinion. I'm all for a remake why not, but I don't think it's worth the time or effort, BlockWars has plenty more maps and the builder team shouldn't have to be worrying about a single map.

Cubecraft have big and small maps of all modalities. Example: in team skywars the map "trees" is giant, but "fruit" is small. In team eggwars tea party is giant but toys is very small. Why not this is blockwars?

BlockWars is a small gamemode, and at non-peak times only one game starts at a time. Which means that if it's Nuclear you're screwed, there's no way around it. And yes other gamemodes have different size variations but keep in mind games like Skywars and EggWars are much more popular than BlockWars and there'll most probably never be a single game available. Not to mention, the size of a SkyWars map doesn't really matter as long as the distance between islands is about the same/close to the average. I'd also like to point out that BlockWars is a game that's widely different to SkyWars. In SkyWars you only get one shot, that's it and there isn't really any time limit. On the other side, you have the ability to respawn in BlockWars and games cannot take forever, there's a time limit. Which means maps should be easy to travel through and allow a fast paced game, before the Big Change, on the travelling compass BlockWars was described as a fast paced game. Which is true, unless you're playing Nuclear. Also, BlockWars will always have 16 players max, so you could attribute size variation in SkyWars and EggWars to that.

 

[RPoule]

Unpopular opinion? Sorry but that just about shows you never play BlockWars, I've played BlockWars since 2016 and most my friends/people I met absolutely despise this map. You and your friends like big maps? So you like 10 minute matches that could take 3 minutes? You like having to walk around for an entire minute before you get to do something exciting? I don't want to point this out but um, the voting results are open #1 and #5 on the leaderboard voted in favor of the removal of this map. And they, more than anyone know the game and know how annoying it can be to have this map around.. You and your friends are not the majority, and yours is the unpopular opinion. I'm all for a remake why not, but I don't think it's worth the time or effort, BlockWars has plenty more maps and the builder team shouldn't have to be worrying about a single map.

This entire rant, just because he put a comma instead of a colon. Here on the internet, when we say "unpopular opinion: [...]" we usually mean that the sentences followed are our unpopular opinion.
All this while I dont think its unpopular at all, I also like playing on big boy maps. TeaParty being one of my favorites ^^.

As for the suggestion, I dont care all that much as Blockwars is dead to me, but back when I used to play it, I actually really enjoyed Nuclear. The speed kit (as you mentioned) made the map really fun to play on. The constant jumping and chasing made it "feel" quick, even though the games might've last a couple of minutes longer.

Its healthy for a game to have larger and smaller maps, it ensures not all games feel the same and some outliers help to strengthen that effect.

I do think indeed, the map could be reduced in size a little bit. Just remove some platforms near the center and yeet both ends towards each other. The map lay-out is unique, therefore has players liking it and therefore shouldn't just be deleted.

I'm against adding features that are appreciated by only a small niche on the server.
Removing them however, I find unnecessary, it doesnt waste any devtime, it only makes a couple more players happy. And I know blockwars has a small playerbase, but isnt waiting 5 minutes for the next map worth it when you know others get fun playing their favorite maps?

In short: edit the map, dont delete it :)
Could you maybe add a third poll option for that?

 

[GalacticAC]

Another idea is to make the max player count 40 on this map but it will never fill up

 

[Herrero]

BlockWars is a game in which you are constantly attacking and defending. In this map, if you are in the enemies base and more people are needed in the defense, you can't go back to your base as by the time you get there it's new years eve.

Also strategies are an important part of this game and which makes them fun and different from each other. That would be ruined if your whole team uses runner.

 

[Eli]

This entire rant, just because he put a comma instead of a colon. Here on the internet, when we say "unpopular opinion: [...]" we usually mean that the sentences followed are our unpopular opinion.

Well I may have misinterpreted that, but all my points still stand.

All this while I dont think its unpopular at all, I also like playing on big boy maps. TeaParty being one of my favorites ^^.

EggWars is not the same thing as BlockWars, the EggWars community is completely different to the BlockWars community. BlockWars maps are completely different to EggWars maps. A big map like TeaParty may be popular because of its long games, but when it comes to BlockWars, all games need to be about the same length. And maps should facilitate that.

As for the suggestion, I dont care all that much as Blockwars is dead to me, but back when I used to play it, I actually really enjoyed Nuclear. The speed kit (as you mentioned) made the map really fun to play on. The constant jumping and chasing made it "feel" quick, even though the games might've last a couple of minutes longer.

Yes I mentioned the speed kit but I also mentioned how all the other kits become basically useless in this map, since the time is limited you gotta move as fast as possible and with such a big map only Runner is a viable pick to go.

Its healthy for a game to have larger and smaller maps, it ensures not all games feel the same and some outliers help to strengthen that effect.

It's not healthy in BlockWars' case, because all games still have the same time limit.

I'm all for maps with different styles, and that, BlockWars can have. Like the The Bridge not having so much void, Basilisks being almost entirely parkour dependant, Palette, with it's two layers. All of these things can variate in a BlockWars map, but size cannot variate as much as you would think. All maps need to stay within an average size, because as I've said multiple times by now All BlockWars games have the same time limit, hence you cannot make a map designed for longer games.

It's as if Quakecraft had a single map that's almost three times bigger, it wouldn't be enjoyable if the player limit and time limit are still the same. Maps need to adapt to the characteristics of the game.

I do think indeed, the map could be reduced in size a little bit. Just remove some platforms near the center and yeet both ends towards each other. The map lay-out is unique, therefore has players liking it and therefore shouldn't just be deleted.

It's been attempted, but every element of the map is just so gigantic already (e.g. the nuclear reactors) that it's really hard to make a smaller version without it all looking cramped together. If it's gonna be remade, then delete it until it's ready.

Removing them however, I find unnecessary, it doesnt waste any devtime, it only makes a couple more players happy. And I know blockwars has a small playerbase, but isnt waiting 5 minutes for the next map worth it when you know others get fun playing their favorite maps?

It wouldn't be the first time a map would be removed, many other maps have been removed in the past because they simply weren't good for gameplay anymore. And believe me, the people who actively play BlockWars and like this map are a really reduced amount, so that small amount can be pleased with the nostalgia week.

Edit: Tbh I think it's more than evident how this map just not fits into BlockWars map pool. It's twice as big as any other map, that just makes no sense.

 

[_The13thDoctor_]

Unpopular opinion? Sorry but that just about shows you never play BlockWars, I've played BlockWars since 2016 and most my friends/people I met absolutely despise this map. You and your friends like big maps? So you like 10 minute matches that could take 3 minutes? You like having to walk around for an entire minute before you get to do something exciting? I don't want to point this out but um, the voting results are open #1 and #5 on the leaderboard voted in favor of the removal of this map. And they, more than anyone know the game and know how annoying it can be to have this map around.. You and your friends are not the majority, and yours is the unpopular opinion. I'm all for a remake why not, but I don't think it's worth the time or effort, BlockWars has plenty more maps and the builder team shouldn't have to be worrying about a single map.



BlockWars is a small gamemode, and at non-peak times only one game starts at a time. Which means that if it's Nuclear you're screwed, there's no way around it. And yes other gamemodes have different size variations but keep in mind games like Skywars and EggWars are much more popular than BlockWars and there'll most probably never be a single game available. Not to mention, the size of a SkyWars map doesn't really matter as long as the distance between islands is about the same/close to the average. I'd also like to point out that BlockWars is a game that's widely different to SkyWars. In SkyWars you only get one shot, that's it and there isn't really any time limit. On the other side, you have the ability to respawn in BlockWars and games cannot take forever, there's a time limit. Which means maps should be easy to travel through and allow a fast paced game, before the Big Change, on the travelling compass BlockWars was described as a fast paced game. Which is true, unless you're playing Nuclear. Also, BlockWars will always have 16 players max, so you could attribute size variation in SkyWars and EggWars to that.

Unpopular opinion as in my opinion is unpopular, also dming me like tons messages begging me to change my vote won’t change my mind. Especially since I like this map and don’t mind long games, neither do my buddy’s. Plus if you don’t like it, don’t play it. I mean why remove something some people like when you can just play a different game. Also I don’t appreciate the edgyness, sorry I disagree with you but that’s the way the boat floats.

 

[Eli]

Unpopular opinion as in my opinion is unpopular, also dming me like tons messages begging me to change my vote won’t change my mind. Especially since I like this map and don’t mind long games, neither do my buddy’s. Plus if you don’t like it, don’t play it. I mean why remove something some people like when you can just play a different game. Also I don’t appreciate the edgyness, sorry I disagree with you but that’s the way the boat floats.

Yes I realized that I misinterpreted that.

I DM'ed you because it's really hard for me to prove my point when BlockWars players aren't really that active on the forums. And when people who haven't really had much experience with BlockWars base their opinions on a few games they ever played. I know everyone has the right to vote and to give their opinion, but I just want this as badly as many other people want it they're just not so active on these forums or probably don't even have an account. I don't want to derail this thread into drama but I'll leave a few things clear, it's really disrespectful of you to go ahead and tell everyone I DM'ed you "begging" for you to change your vote. I wasn't begging? You've got the custom of pointing out specific people who disagree with your ideas, so I inferred you wouldn't mind if I messaged you about it. Not like you didn't message me when I voted no on that EggWars map :P Second, don't ever ask me to build a map together again. And don't think I'm gonna let you use any of my builds like you've requested on the past. So please don't continue to rely on people like me to accumulate stuff you didn't make for your designer application :P

 

[_The13thDoctor_]

Yes I realized that I misinterpreted that.

I DM'ed you because it's really hard for me to prove my point when BlockWars players aren't really that active on the forums. And when people who haven't really had much experience with BlockWars base their opinions on a few games they ever played. I know everyone has the right to vote and to give their opinion, but I just want this as badly as many other people want it they're just not so active on these forums or probably don't even have an account. I don't want to derail this thread into drama but I'll leave a few things clear, it's really disrespectful of you to go ahead and tell everyone I DM'ed you "begging" for you to change your vote. I wasn't begging? You've got the custom of pointing out specific people who disagree with your ideas, so I inferred you wouldn't mind if I messaged you about it. Not like you didn't message me when I voted no on that EggWars map :p Second, don't ever ask me to build a map together again. And don't think I'm gonna let you use any of my builds like you've requested on the past. So please don't continue to rely on people like me to accumulate stuff you didn't make for your designer application :p

Wow that’s super aggressive. I don’t know what your problem is but you need to chill. Your getting mad at me for voting no because I like a map others don’t. Please. I’m happy to share screenshots of the paragraph(s) you sent me trying to convince you. When I dm’Ed you it’s because you never gave a reason. Lol ok, this has nothing to do with this and it seems like your upset about something, I’ve asked to use some of your stuff for reference or asked to collaborate. Also please just stop. If I want to work with people I can. Care to tell everyone what you did on pirates? Nothing, all me baby. Almost the case with 1 or 2 other builds. This is completely off topic so if you want to continue this, take it outside, and if not then let’s see what others have to say.

 

[RPoule]

Here I am, starting to respect you as someone who has the ability to debate on a higher level than average.

I'll leave a few things clear, it's really disrespectful of you to go ahead and tell everyone I DM'ed you "begging" for you to change your vote. I wasn't begging? You've got the custom of pointing out specific people who disagree with your ideas, so I inferred you wouldn't mind if I messaged you about it. Not like you didn't message me when I voted no on that EggWars map :p Second, don't ever ask me to build a map together again. And don't think I'm gonna let you use any of my builds like you've requested on the past. So please don't continue to rely on people like me to accumulate stuff you didn't make for your designer application :p

Went and googled "Things not to do in a debate" This was the first result , with this reply and a couple of others, you managed to fail on half of the NoGo's while some of them are not even relevant in a forumssetting. Your thread, in my eyes just lost most of it's value. Yes, purely because when your subjective arguments (I, as stated before, agree with the objective ones) get disagreed on, you tend to become more and more edgy and offensive. Please don't do that, it destroys the fun in debating over any topic, and puts a negative light on your arguments.

None of us have disagreed upon the map being "too big" , however, liking the gameplay on any map is a subjective thing. Both @Mrs. Brown and me have clearly stated that us liking the map is our opinion. We're not gonna defend an opinion that we do not stand behind? I think it's become clear that you and me @Eli are both quite stubborn in our opinions and naturally resist changing them. Therefore I won't ask you to do so. What I will ask though, is to respect others' subjective opinions, and to know when to stop trying to convince them otherwise. *Note that this can be interpreted as a personal attack as well, do so if you wish, I'm only trying to help.

As for your replies:

EggWars is not the same thing as BlockWars, the EggWars community is completely different to the BlockWars community. BlockWars maps are completely different to EggWars maps. A big map like TeaParty may be popular because of its long games, but when it comes to BlockWars, all games need to be about the same length. And maps should facilitate that.

Games don't need to be around the same length.

So you like 10 minute matches that could take 3 minutes?

Yes I like 10 minute matches.

All BlockWars games have the same time limit, hence you cannot make a map designed for longer games.

Yet they can end in 3 minutes as well. I believe the goal of BlockWars is to yoink 3 flags total. But you'll still win if only 1 was stolen when time runs out. Different strategies could use different maps. Obviously I agree with "BlockWars maps are completely different to EggWars maps". But that doesn't mean they can't have simularities. A map like EggWars has a way different optimal approach and strategy than say, Toys does. Why can't that be the case in BlockWars?

It wouldn't be the first time a map would be removed, many other maps have been removed in the past because they simply weren't good for gameplay anymore. And believe me, the people who actively play BlockWars and like this map are a really reduced amount, so that small amount can be pleased with the nostalgia week.

This is based on what, do you interview a sample of your opponents? If you're going to use statistics in your CubeCraft debates, do so properly. Like you did with the map Sizing comparison.

without it all looking cramped together.

I think it'd actually look quite funny and abstract.

Not gonna reply to every point you make publicly anymore, not gonna start drama. DM me if you want to WordFight me further.

 

[_The13thDoctor_]

Here I am, starting to respect you as someone who has the ability to debate on a higher level than average.

Went and googled "Things not to do in a debate" This was the first result , with this reply and a couple of others, you managed to fail on half of the NoGo's while some of them are not even relevant in a forumssetting. Your thread, in my eyes just lost most of it's value. Yes, purely because when your subjective arguments (I, as stated before, agree with the objective ones) get disagreed on, you tend to become more and more edgy and offensive. Please don't do that, it destroys the fun in debating over any topic, and puts a negative light on your arguments.

None of us have disagreed upon the map being "too big" , however, liking the gameplay on any map is a subjective thing. Both @Mrs. Brown and me have clearly stated that us liking the map is our opinion. We're not gonna defend an opinion that we do not stand behind? I think it's become clear that you and me @Eli are both quite stubborn in our opinions and naturally resist changing them. Therefore I won't ask you to do so. What I will ask though, is to respect others' subjective opinions, and to know when to stop trying to convince them otherwise. *Note that this can be interpreted as a personal attack as well, do so if you wish, I'm only trying to help.

As for your replies:

Games don't need to be around the same length.

Yes I like 10 minute matches.

Yet they can end in 3 minutes as well. I believe the goal of BlockWars is to yoink 3 flags total. But you'll still win if only 1 was stolen when time runs out. Different strategies could use different maps. Obviously I agree with "BlockWars maps are completely different to EggWars maps". But that doesn't mean they can't have simularities. A map like EggWars has a way different optimal approach and strategy than say, Toys does. Why can't that be the case in BlockWars?

This is based on what, do you interview a sample of your opponents? If you're going to use statistics in your CubeCraft debates, do so properly. Like you did with the map Sizing comparison.


I think it'd actually look quite funny and abstract.

Not gonna reply to every point you make publicly anymore, not gonna start drama. DM me if you want to WordFight me further.

Don’t forget I’m stubborn also! xD

 

[Deleted member 294498]

So this has probably been my most delayed suggestion thread ever, I've had this thread in the back of my mind poking me for what seemed like months and now, with the recent featuring of BlockWars Core, I've decided to finally make it. The suggestion is pretty simple and straightforward, I’m asking for the removal of the BlockWars map “Nuclear”. And I will give my reasons why:

Nuclear is BlockWars’ most infamous map, you either love it or hate it. Chances are, you hate it and you’re not to blame, this map is absolutely terrible.

• Credits to @Andyyy for these calculations, this is the distance from flag to flag of 8 different BlockWars maps and the time it takes to travel from one flag to another:

So looking at this data one could say the average BlockWars map has a flag to flag distance of about 60-110 Blocks. And takes the player an average of 15s to travel through. Now all these maps work fine, long games aren’t as common and camping is rarely an issue.

I want you to guess the flag to flag distance of the Nuclear map, then click the spoiler to see if you were right.

Spoiler: ”Nuclear Flag to Flag Distance”

I bet you didn’t expect that… Nuclear is almost twice as big as any other BlockWars map. And it takes the player twice the time to get from one flag to another.

So you get an idea of how enormous the proportions of this map are, here is Castlewars:

And here is Nuclear:

Having such a big map is inevitably gonna ruin gameplay, when it’s CTF mode, games take a painfully long amount of time and result in being extremely tedious and boring. Do you want to wait a whole minute walking around the map until you finally find some action? And when it’s core it’s even worse, the gamemode is already super slow paced, with a gigantic map like this, games become as long as they can get. Not to mention, most kits become useless when distance is so determining, and most players find themselves limited to use the Runner kit (speed II) because all other kits are just incredibly slow in this map, hence become useless.

So please, remove this awful map already.

Thanks for reading! Any type of Feedback is appreciated, and don’t forget to vote on the poll!

I like the maps how they are :)

 

[Andyyy]

Bump cuz this map sucks

 

[Efcluke94]

A little backstory on map creation:
So BlockWars had come to CubeCraft and the game already had a substantial amount of maps from the Chunk. The build team at the time knew very little about the game. So the first few maps we released were actually pretty bad as they were huge slow maps or just didn't fit the right flow, they were particularly bad for the 1.9 combat system. Nuclear was one of these maps.

We're going to remove the map
Thanks for the calculations, this is a very well thought out thread. Personally I've always disliked it, just doesn't have good gameplay for what you want from a fast-paced game. I never like to remove a map if there isn't a solid reason or a post requesting it, with a lot of support! Even with this map removed there is a backlog of content in map submission so there will be a few new ones to replace it in the coming future.

- Locking as the suggestion has been implemented.