Java TD - Vote for the destruction of badly placed towers

[Lucavon]

Hey! I have a suggestion for TD. Quick and easy explanation:
There should be a feature that allows someone to flag a tower as obstructive, which will let the team vote on whether or not it should be destroyed to free up the space.

The reason I am suggesting this is that there are many players - beginners - who place their towers in ways that give the entire team a significant disadvantage. For example, I had a game yesterday where a beginner placed archer towers on 3 5x5 fields directly next to spawn, effectively making them unusable for Leech/Turret/Necro towers, even though they were intended to be placeable there. Another, similar situation I frequently encounter is that beginners place their 5x5 towers across multiple 3x3 fields - a few days ago, someone placed their Necromancer tower in a way that it blocked 9 (!) fields.

Here's an image:

And here's a screenshot of the problem in an actual game (I've censored some names):

As you can see, the tower is on a 5x5 field, effectively blocking it. I'm not reporting this because the player removed it upon request.

The GUI should have a button saying "Vote to remove". When clicked, it asks the entire team whether the tower should be removed, and if the majority chooses "yes" (ignoring people who don't vote, because many people may not read the chat and not see it, which would make it hard to actually remove towers), the tower is removed, 60% of the coins refunded to the placer (like a normal removal), and the space freed. EDIT: The player who started the vote should only be allowed to vote if the number of team members is uneven. This means that if there are 6 players, only 5 can vote, preventing a draw. 5 -> 5, 4 -> 3, 3 -> 3 and so on.


Highlighting the tower
Obviously, the players also need a way to identify which tower will be removed. My suggestions:

• Place a beacon above the tower
  
• For every block the tower is made of (outer blocks only), spawn an equivalent falling sand entity of that type, and give it the glowing effect. That will allow players to see the tower through walls. Downside: potential lag.
• Particles or projectiles falling on the tower from the sky. Problem with particles: players who have them turned off may not be able to identify the tower.

Preventing abuse
This may, however, be abused by trolls who form a party of 4 or more players, if no measures to prevent this are put in place. Therefore, I've come up with the following ideas for preventing abuse:

• Only allow vote-removing towers that are incorrectly placed (e.g. a 5x5 on multiple 3x3 fields, or a 3x3 on a 5x5 field).
• Require the person starting the vote to select a tower they want to replace the old tower with, and require them to have sufficient funds to actually place the tower they selected. When the vote begins, the money is taken from the player, and if the vote succeeds, the tower is replaced. If the vote fails, the coins are returned to the player. This will help prevent griefing.
• Set a maximum number of times a player can start a vote to remove a tower each game. That way, even dedicated trolls will be prevented from doing too much damage.

What do you think about this proposed change?
Let me know!

 

[TheBrownster]

Only allow vote-removing towers that are incorrectly placed (e.g. a 5x5 on multiple 3x3 fields, or a 3x3 on a 5x5 field

I think this would be the best solution. Just maybe also include towers placed in the right spot, but just not placed in the grid (3x3 blocking several 3x3 spots.
I see issues with the second proposed solution since it would be more difficult to align the replaced tower where you actually wanted it. For example, when replacing a 5x5 with a 3x3, if the 3x3 goes where the center of the 5x5 was, it will also be improperly placed. It would require a lot of logic for the program to correctly assume where you wanted the replacement to actually go so I think the first or second solution solves the problem the best.

+1

 

[Lucavon]

It would require a lot of logic for the program to correctly assume where you wanted the replacement to actually go

Thanks for the reply! I sort of agree, but also sort of disagree with this. I am a programmer myself, and I can think of some simple algorithms to find an empty field nearby that would be fitting for that tower.

While finding a suitable field is rather trivial, figuring out which one it is that the player wanted to place the new tower on if there are multiple fields nearby is not really possible, as a 3x3 placed across multiple fields does not give enough information to know where the player wants to place the new tower.
Ideas for solutions:

• If the new field can not be determined, only remove the tower and don't place a new one (also don't require the player to select a new tower, obviously)
• Let the player choose the field (e.g. by clicking it)

 

[TheBrownster]

Thanks for the reply! I sort of agree, but also sort of disagree with this. I am a programmer myself, and I can think of some simple algorithms to find an empty field nearby that would be fitting for that tower.

While finding a suitable field is rather trivial, figuring out which one it is that the player wanted to place the new tower on if there are multiple fields nearby is not really possible, as a 3x3 placed across multiple fields does not give enough information to know where the player wants to place the new tower.
Ideas for solutions:

• If the new field can not be determined, only remove the tower and don't place a new one (also don't require the player to select a new tower, obviously)
• Let the player choose the field (e.g. by clicking it)

Thanks for the reply-reply!
I think that it is a relatively complex solution. Maybe if they wanted to implement that into normal play so you can only place towers correctly aligned to the grid (with exceptions of course, but that isn’t the topic of this thread), but if it is just for tower replacement, I don’t think the time is worth it.
Removing the tower and letting the player place a new one as normal I think is an effective and simple solution

 

[Rawrbin]

I love the voting idea, but as discussed earlier, it might be too hard to create?
I don't know a lot of this stuff, but when placing a 5w5 in a 3X3 3x3 grid, and replacing them this way is like you said really hard, and then requires another way of "replacing", just deleting it.
And what happens to the money put into the "deleted tower"?
Nice idea, but probably hard to create! :D

 

[Lucavon]

And what happens to the money put into the "deleted tower"?

Oh, yes, I forgot talk about that! I think it should be handled like a normal tower removal - refunding 60%.

 

[Rawrbin]

Oh, yes, I forgot talk about that! I think it should be handled like a normal tower removal - refunding 60%.

Sounds good to me, however the complex situations are still… complex..
Tho I do love your idea!

 

[MeggalBozale]

Love this! Can't say how many times I've died inside when a noob on the team places a necro on SIX free spaces and pretends its normal, despite my complaints. With this, as long as the majority of your team knows the game, it'll be great to have so that the noobs can't ruin the game all the time!

Only issue,

• Require the person starting the vote to select a tower they want to replace the old tower with, and require them to have sufficient funds to actually place the tower they selected. When the vote begins, the money is taken from the player, and if the vote succeeds, the tower is replaced. If the vote fails, the coins are returned to the player. This will help prevent griefing.

• Set a maximum number of times a player can start a vote to remove a tower each game. That way, even dedicated trolls will be prevented from doing too much damage.

If they're placing the tower wrong in the first place, you probably shouldn't let them chose another bad tower. I feel like instead, the coins are just returned to the player.

Maximum times a tower can be vote removed sounds nice, but if the person in question keeps placing bad towers, your game is done when you're out of votes. There'd need to be a counter for this, like another vote that, if passed, prevents them from placing towers. This vote has to be majority, and takes 2 minutes to vote on(?) If passed, they cannot put votes on other players in that round again.

+1, though, I'd like to see something of this in the game!

 

[iDawnbreaker]

Its about time this issue was addressed, i completely support this idea :) +1

 

[Jevmen]

realy love the idea +1!
is the good way to do it.
also, you can only vote misplaced towers, so trolss wont be able to remove towers

 

[Tengger]

This would be great but i don't think we'll see this anytime soon unfortunately

 

[Lozora]

Hey! I have a suggestion for TD. Quick and easy explanation:
There should be a feature that allows someone to flag a tower as obstructive, which will let the team vote on whether or not it should be destroyed to free up the space.


Thank you for sharing your idea with us!
I really like your idea! Hope they bring it in the game!

The reason I am suggesting this is that there are many players - beginners - who place their towers in ways that give the entire team a significant disadvantage. For example, I had a game yesterday where a beginner placed archer towers on 3 5x5 fields directly next to spawn, effectively making them unusable for Leech/Turret/Necro towers, even though they were intended to be placeable there. Another, similar situation I frequently encounter is that beginners place their 5x5 towers across multiple 3x3 fields - a few days ago, someone placed their Necromancer tower in a way that it blocked 9 (!) fields.

Here's an image:

And here's a screenshot of the problem in an actual game (I've censored some names):

As you can see, the tower is on a 5x5 field, effectively blocking it. I'm not reporting this because the player removed it upon request.

The GUI should have a button saying "Vote to remove". When clicked, it asks the entire team whether the tower should be removed, and if the majority chooses "yes" (ignoring people who don't vote, because many people may not read the chat and not see it, which would make it hard to actually remove towers), the tower is removed, 60% of the coins refunded to the placer (like a normal removal), and the space freed. EDIT: The player who started the vote should only be allowed to vote if the number of team members is uneven. This means that if there are 6 players, only 5 can vote, preventing a draw. 5 -> 5, 4 -> 3, 3 -> 3 and so on.


Highlighting the tower
Obviously, the players also need a way to identify which tower will be removed. My suggestions:

• Place a beacon above the tower
  
• For every block the tower is made of (outer blocks only), spawn an equivalent falling sand entity of that type, and give it the glowing effect. That will allow players to see the tower through walls. Downside: potential lag.
• Particles or projectiles falling on the tower from the sky. Problem with particles: players who have them turned off may not be able to identify the tower.

Preventing abuse
This may, however, be abused by trolls who form a party of 4 or more players, if no measures to prevent this are put in place. Therefore, I've come up with the following ideas for preventing abuse:

• Only allow vote-removing towers that are incorrectly placed (e.g. a 5x5 on multiple 3x3 fields, or a 3x3 on a 5x5 field).
• Require the person starting the vote to select a tower they want to replace the old tower with, and require them to have sufficient funds to actually place the tower they selected. When the vote begins, the money is taken from the player, and if the vote succeeds, the tower is replaced. If the vote fails, the coins are returned to the player. This will help prevent griefing.
• Set a maximum number of times a player can start a vote to remove a tower each game. That way, even dedicated trolls will be prevented from doing too much damage.

What do you think about this proposed change?
Let me know!

 

[MeggalBozale]

This would be great but i don't think we'll see this anytime soon unfortunately

I mean there's a point we still try, which is because if we don't, they'll probably abandon the gamemode altogether for nobody playing it.

Sorta happens when you ignore your gamemode for years on end >.>

 

[Lucavon]

Sorta happens when you ignore your gamemode for years on end >.>

I have only recently returned to CubeCraft, so I don't know anything about this - has this gamemode not been updated for a while?

 

[Jevmen]

and what is the problem, they must update it, sooner or later

 

[MeggalBozale]

I have only recently returned to CubeCraft, so I don't know anything about this - has this gamemode not been updated for a while?

Last update was in 2017

 

[Lucavon]

Last update was in 2017

Wow, that's a long time... 2-3 years... I hope the game will get the make-over it deserves soon!

 

[HiggDawg]

I understand where you are coming from when you stated for only misplaced towers in areas that they don't belong are to be removed I believe we should be able to remove other towers too, explanation in some games a player places a tower that isn't really helping the game I like to place a poison tower at the begging for the troops to take damage throughout the entire course but there are always other players that love to put archer towers everywhere and sometimes the player selects the wrong path for the archers but refuses to change them and so on, anyways I believe we should be able to remove any tower. You are totally right about the griefing of a group of people, but I strongly believe this can be reportable if it continues if players keep removing your towers due to this it can be reported and proper action can be taken to the trolls.

 

[Lucavon]

I believe we should be able to remove other towers too, explanation in some games a player places a tower that isn't really helping the game I like to place a poison tower at the begging for the troops to take damage throughout the entire course but there are always other players that love to put archer towers everywhere and sometimes the player selects the wrong path for the archers but refuses to change them

Thanks for your long reply!
I personally believe it is not a good idea to let people vote on *any* tower - like you said, "the player selects the wrong path [...]".
This is a personal opinion. There are no "wrong" paths - of course, in the context of your strategy or the team's current state, the path may be "wrong" in comparison to the other, at least when it comes to effectiveness, but it still doesn't change the fact that the player in question made the choice to use that path and not the other one.

If every tower could be destroyed via votes, unpopular strategies may become downright impossible to execute, as the team would just repeatedly destroy any towers that *they* believe to be bad, because it doesn't fit into *their* strategy.
We have to consider the individual here - everyone should be able to play the game the way they want to, as long as they're not directly negatively impacting others, which they aren't when they're placing the "wrong" type of tower or choose the "wrong" path. If they misplace the tower, however, they're taking away valuable space, negatively impacting everyone on the team.

What I'm trying to say is: Allowing every tower to be destroyed would have a profound negative impact on players that rely on unpopular strategies. People will not act rationally, but instead decide with their on bias as a basis, which will lead to many unfair tower removals. Just like you have the right to place your towers at any location, everyone else is allowed to do that, too. Even if you disagree with what towers they place or what paths they choose, that doesn't make their towers' existence "wrong". For the sake of fairness, only misplaced towers should be removable.