"Teamers"

[Jaistrix]

Hey everyone, before I get into the suggestion I would just like to say that I know this might not be a popular idea or subject but I thought it was worth putting out the community to see what feedback it got. The games I'm and more focusing on are games like SG or Sky-wars ect. I would just like to ask you though to give this thread a chance and read all of this through it carefully before answering, thank you :)

What is the suggestion?
To start I think I'm just going to the point and say I personally think that it would be a good idea to change the names of the "solo" pvp game-modes to "FFA" game-modes and I think teaming should be allowed in these games....
Along with this I think solo maps should be added to the team games for the people who want to play completely solo game and/or have one of these two voting option available to Obsidian rank. First option being having the ability to vote to dis-allow teaming in FFA mode and have the vote shown in the sidebar telling everyone whether teaming is allowed or not, the second option is to have the ability to vote to change a team game into a solo team game. Personally I prefer the idea of adding solo team maps rather than the voting option :3

Now I know what you are thinking, "Jordan... this suggestion needs to be burned and have its ashes thrown into the deepest darkest hole no one can find" but I have a few reasons for why I AM suggesting this. Please hear me out.

For those of you who report players, have you ever counted how may teaming players you have reported? I did earlier today and I was shocked to find out that well over half the amount of players I have gotten punished were punished for teaming. Now think about how many of those actually did notice they had been banned and how many of those could have possibly stopped playing on Cube because that ban was the result of them enjoying a game with their friends. I know it's only a 1 day ban but for those who just want to enjoy a game on a new server they found yesterday it could be a big deal, especially to younger players or those who might not understand where to look for rules or pay attention to chat and posters around them.
This suggestion would take away some stress for staff who work hard trying to keep up with reports. I know the report count has declined since sentinel was introduced to get rid of hackers faster but this would free up so much time for them even if that time is used to play some games themselves, get involved with more players in the community or help out more with behind the scenes activity.
It also would not take away the ability to play completely solo games because of the solo team maps or the voting for disabling teaming. Granted it might be a bit less frequent you get into a completely solo game but the option would still be there. Obviously you could still be punished in these games for cross teaming though in the team games.
FFA games would also be so much more unpredictable as well. It would make reading players more unpredictable, not knowing for sure whether they are teamed with someone or if the two less geared players left in the game that are against you are going to help each try and at least make it to the end of the game. Becoming long term friends with players just because they decided to give you some armour or a weapon rather than giving it just because it's a "teamly" thing to do. If random teaming hadn't used to exist, half of the friends I have online now i wouldn't have even gotten to talk to, let alone know. I think random teaming helps grow a healthier community. A community where people decide to be friends and decide to help each other out in games. I know that there are team game you can go to know but it isn't quite the same is it? There is a big difference between deciding to team with someone and just having someone in your team.

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As someone who used to pvp all the time I can say that any kind of team is beatable. Some are harder to beat than others but no team is impossible to beat, it's how you approach fighting the team which determines the outcome. In the end though, players who are teaming are players who are playing the game the way they enjoy it. I've experienced that enjoyment myself and they were some of the best experiences I have had on this server.

(Disclaimer: Just because I'm saying this doesn't mean I'm standing up for people who team now, there is a rule and if you don't follow them then you need to be punished. Just because I don't like something doesn't mean I have to go against it)

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So now what I have to say is out of the way you can hate on it as much as you like. I hope it has at least made a few people think and consider the idea. Thank you for taking the time to read through :P I just think it would be a bigger benefit to the server if players had the ability to random team in games as well as be put into set teams/have completely solo games.​

 

[AnimalTamer1]

Well I have fully read your whole thread and have decided to not hate on your idea, but rather give my opinion as to why I feel this is a bad idea and should not be implemented. You can give your opinion on my comment as you please, but please do know I think that your thread contains a well written and thought out idea that shows you had given this quite a lot of thought before saying anything. It is a good thread and not a bad idea, just one I am against.

To start I think I'm just going to the point and say I personally think that it would be a good idea to change the names of the "solo" pvp game-modes to "FFA" game-modes and I think teaming should be allowed in these games....
Along with this I think solo maps should be added to the team games for the people who want to play completely solo game and/or have one of these two voting option available to Obsidian rank. First option being having the ability to vote to dis-allow teaming in FFA mode and have the vote shown in the sidebar telling everyone whether teaming is allowed or not, the second option is to have the ability to vote to change a team game into a solo team game. Personally I prefer the idea of adding solo team maps rather than the voting option :3

From what I am reading, you are suggesting to basically change Solo to FFA, but still keep the original Solo and to add it so that there can be Solo-Teaming allowed when you go into team games. Now see I can understand why you may suggest this, but personally I find this to be rather silly. I mean there is solo and team games for a reason. You should not have to team in a solo game, when you can just as easily go to a team game and play with the person there. Making it so you can team in Solo would almost defeat the purpose of having Team games, since the teaming in Solo would basically become Team games. On top of this, but having the voting option that you suggest could get rather confusing. It would cause the need for the recordings of the teamers in the no teaming allowed mode to be clear enough to visibly see that no teaming is allowed or the text would have to be large enough. Granted that is a minor issue to this idea.

For those of you who report players, have you ever counted how may teaming players you have reported? I did earlier today and I was shocked to find out that well over half the amount of players I have gotten punished were punished for teaming. Now think about how many of those actually did notice they had been banned and how many of those could have possibly stopped playing on Cube because that ban was the result of them enjoying a game with their friends. I know it's only a 1 day ban but for those who just want to enjoy a game on a new server they found yesterday it could be a big deal, especially to younger players or those who might not understand where to look for rules or pay attention to chat and posters around them.

Out of all of the teamers I have run into with my friends and they reported, or I have reported myself, I have maybe run into one that did not know teaming/cross-teaming was not allowed. Therefore it is pretty commonly known that teaming is not allowed in Solo games, since they are referred to as Solo for a specific reason. Another thing is that the posters are rather large and can be seen quite clearly, so missing them is not too easy though I know it can be done. Also you have to consider that the teamers tend to communicate and ask if another player wants to team, or they were friends previously and are in a call deciding to go on solo and team instead of playing teams. If we went off of the assumption that the younger players do not know that teaming was against the rules, then what would that mean for other rules that the new players may not be able to find. It would almost be like saying a new player hacked on the server, but did not realize it was against the rules because they were young. It does not really make any sense since it is almost common sense that you can not hack on a server. Also do realize that they can appeal their ban if they so choose and based off of what they say they can be unbanned. Therefore giving those that genuinely did not know the rules a chance to not be punished.

This suggestion would take away some stress for staff who work hard trying to keep up with reports. I know the report count has declined since sentinel was introduced to get rid of hackers faster but this would free up so much time for them even if that time is used to play some games themselves, get involved with more players in the community or help out more with behind the scenes activity.
It also would not take away the ability to play completely solo games because of the solo team maps or the voting for disabling teaming. Granted it might be a bit less frequent you get into a completely solo game but the option would still be there. Obviously you could still be punished in these games for cross teaming though in the team games.

I like that you have put into consideration how busy the staff are as well when you made this, but to be fair there are quite a few staff that can deal with reports. This allows for them to all pitch in, which in turn causes less stress on the team as a whole. I still see a ton of staff involved in the community, playing games and doing whatever they can for the server.
Another problem I have is still punishing for cross teaming. I mean you said earlier that the players may just not know that teaming was not allowed, the same could be said for cross teaming. You can not take away the teaming in Solo rule because the players may not be aware of the rule and yet say that the cross teaming in Teams rule stays. Also the whole reason Solo is called Solo is because it is meant to be done alone. The literal definition of the word solo is "for or done by one person alone; unaccompanied", which should make teaming in it an obvious no. Also having completely solo games is the whole purpose of having solo available to the community. If you take that out, then those that love playing a completely solo round of whatever game they are playing would get rather frustrated.

FFA games would also be so much more unpredictable as well. It would make reading players more unpredictable, not knowing for sure whether they are teamed with someone or if the two less geared players left in the game that are against you are going to help each try and at least make it to the end of the game. Becoming long term friends with players just because they decided to give you some armour or a weapon rather than giving it just because it's a "teamly" thing to do. If random teaming hadn't used to exist, half of the friends I have online now i wouldn't have even gotten to talk to, let alone know. I think random teaming helps grow a healthier community. A community where people decide to be friends and decide to help each other out in games. I know that there are team game you can go to know but it isn't quite the same is it? There is a big difference between deciding to team with someone and just having someone in your team.

I can understand where you are coming from on this one and find that it could be quite the interesting time, but even with all of that what if everyone decided to team or team up on one person? Could make for either lengthy games or ones that are just not enjoyable to play anymore. Being on a team with random players still allows for people to make friends and grow in the community and even fighting against someone can form some sort of friendship. Therefore, while I feel like this could be a cool addition for the fact that it would make things more unpredictable, I do not think that it should be added just for that simple aspect.

To make my long reply a little shorter and more compact in case you do not want to read it all, there is a team mode for a reason and a solo mode for a reason. It is not hard to assume teaming is not allowed in Solo, just like cross-teaming is not allowed in Teams. I do not feel this would be wise to add, at all, simply because a lot of people thoroughly enjoy solo and if they could not have it be strictly solo because they can not vote, it could cause quite a lot of issues in the community as well. Also saying someone does not know the rules as a reason to add this is not a good enough reason since they are actually quite common sense. If you really feel someone getting banned for teaming is not fair then maybe they could make it so you have to give one warning to teamers before reporting them? That would seem like the best fix without turning Solo games into a slightly varied version of Team games. That all being said, I am sorry but I really hope they do not add this as a feature. I feel it would be too confusing and not needed. It was a nice thought, but I personally do not like the idea at all.

 

[Jaistrix]

Well I have fully read your whole thread and have decided to not hate on your idea, but rather give my opinion as to why I feel this is a bad idea and should not be implemented. You can give your opinion on my comment as you please, but please do know I think that your thread contains a well written and thought out idea that shows you had given this quite a lot of thought before saying anything. It is a good thread and not a bad idea, just one I am against.


From what I am reading, you are suggesting to basically change Solo to FFA, but still keep the original Solo and to add it so that there can be Solo-Teaming allowed when you go into team games. Now see I can understand why you may suggest this, but personally I find this to be rather silly. I mean there is solo and team games for a reason. You should not have to team in a solo game, when you can just as easily go to a team game and play with the person there. Making it so you can team in Solo would almost defeat the purpose of having Team games, since the teaming in Solo would basically become Team games. On top of this, but having the voting option that you suggest could get rather confusing. It would cause the need for the recordings of the teamers in the no teaming allowed mode to be clear enough to visibly see that no teaming is allowed or the text would have to be large enough. Granted that is a minor issue to this idea.


Out of all of the teamers I have run into with my friends and they reported, or I have reported myself, I have maybe run into one that did not know teaming/cross-teaming was not allowed. Therefore it is pretty commonly known that teaming is not allowed in Solo games, since they are referred to as Solo for a specific reason. Another thing is that the posters are rather large and can be seen quite clearly, so missing them is not too easy though I know it can be done. Also you have to consider that the teamers tend to communicate and ask if another player wants to team, or they were friends previously and are in a call deciding to go on solo and team instead of playing teams. If we went off of the assumption that the younger players do not know that teaming was against the rules, then what would that mean for other rules that the new players may not be able to find. It would almost be like saying a new player hacked on the server, but did not realize it was against the rules because they were young. It does not really make any sense since it is almost common sense that you can not hack on a server. Also do realize that they can appeal their ban if they so choose and based off of what they say they can be unbanned. Therefore giving those that genuinely did not know the rules a chance to not be punished.


I like that you have put into consideration how busy the staff are as well when you made this, but to be fair there are quite a few staff that can deal with reports. This allows for them to all pitch in, which in turn causes less stress on the team as a whole. I still see a ton of staff involved in the community, playing games and doing whatever they can for the server.
Another problem I have is still punishing for cross teaming. I mean you said earlier that the players may just not know that teaming was not allowed, the same could be said for cross teaming. You can not take away the teaming in Solo rule because the players may not be aware of the rule and yet say that the cross teaming in Teams rule stays. Also the whole reason Solo is called Solo is because it is meant to be done alone. The literal definition of the word solo is "for or done by one person alone; unaccompanied", which should make teaming in it an obvious no. Also having completely solo games is the whole purpose of having solo available to the community. If you take that out, then those that love playing a completely solo round of whatever game they are playing would get rather frustrated.


I can understand where you are coming from on this one and find that it could be quite the interesting time, but even with all of that what if everyone decided to team or team up on one person? Could make for either lengthy games or ones that are just not enjoyable to play anymore. Being on a team with random players still allows for people to make friends and grow in the community and even fighting against someone can form some sort of friendship. Therefore, while I feel like this could be a cool addition for the fact that it would make things more unpredictable, I do not think that it should be added just for that simple aspect.

To make my long reply a little shorter and more compact in case you do not want to read it all, there is a team mode for a reason and a solo mode for a reason. It is not hard to assume teaming is not allowed in Solo, just like cross-teaming is not allowed in Teams. I do not feel this would be wise to add, at all, simply because a lot of people thoroughly enjoy solo and if they could not have it be strictly solo because they can not vote, it could cause quite a lot of issues in the community as well. Also saying someone does not know the rules as a reason to add this is not a good enough reason since they are actually quite common sense. If you really feel someone getting banned for teaming is not fair then maybe they could make it so you have to give one warning to teamers before reporting them? That would seem like the best fix without turning Solo games into a slightly varied version of Team games. That all being said, I am sorry but I really hope they do not add this as a feature. I feel it would be too confusing and not needed. It was a nice thought, but I personally do not like the idea at all.

I guess a couple of the main points I'm trying to get a across is that players enjoy random teaming more than they enjoy being put in a team. I have played team SG since the initial update and I played SG before that update and personally I enjoyed SG a million times more when random teaming was allowed. Everything seems so... automised... it's the same. Team games are exactly the same as the solo version, you just don't have a designated teammate to back you up in solo. There isn't any surprise when you are in fixed teams because everything is sorted out for you at the start of the game.

Teaming is no where near the same as hacking offence-wise. Teaming on some servers is a valid and allowed strategy so players coming from those servers may just assume it's allowed. You are also assuming that everyone speaks English or Dutch because as far as I know the rules are only in those languages. I used the example of younger players because they tend not you pay as much attention, they just want to get in a game and find something or do something exciting.

When you say the voting option would get confusing I did say in the thread that whichever was voted for would be written in the scoreboard so everyone could see it. Meaning if you were recording a team when teaming was allowed, for the whole recording there would be big writing in a scoreboard on the side of the screen says "Teaming Allowed".

Also the whole reason Solo is called Solo is because it is meant to be done alone.

That's why I said change the name to FFA :3

I'm only saying all of this because I don't think you have understood the outcomes of this :3 In the end you would have less players banned for playing a game the way they enjoy it(players won't be put off joining the server again because they got banned for playing a game the way they enjoy it), more unpredictable and less robotic games and a community who decide they want to work together rather than are pushed towards eachother and made to play a game together.

 

[AnimalTamer1]

players enjoy random teaming more than they enjoy being put in a team.

The main issue with this statement is that random teaming and being placed in a random team is the exact same thing. The only difference is you have team protection in Team games and would not have that in Solo games. Also, the way Team games work is you are randomly placed on a team, that unless you move or choose your own teammates, where you do not know your teammates.

Team games are exactly the same as the solo version, you just don't have a designated teammate to back you up in solo.

You take out the main preface of team or solo in any game and it is exactly the same except you will not have a teammate. It would be the same in the case of a solo-teaming gamemode. The only difference is you can be back stabbed, which adds some unknowns to the gameplay.

Teaming is no where near the same as hacking offence-wise. Teaming on some servers is a valid and allowed strategy so players coming from those servers may just assume it's allowed. You are also assuming that everyone speaks English or Dutch because as far as I know the rules are only in those languages. I used the example of younger players because they tend not you pay as much attention, they just want to get in a game and find something or do something exciting.

I was not trying to compare the two in offense sense, but simply use it as an example. Also the rules for in-game are in Spanish, Dutch, Portuguese, and French. Although it is true that younger children like to just hop in a game to do something exciting, that is where my idea to add the warning for teaming before reporting them comes in handy. Another thing to remember is that it is only a day ban that they can try to appeal or wait it out.

In the end you would have less banned players (players won't be put off joining the server again because they got banned for playing a game the way they enjoy it), more unpredictable and less robotic games and a community who decide they want to work together rather than are pushed towards eachother and made to play a game together.

To be fair the ban is only a day, meaning they can come back the next day so the bans for teaming do not pile up that much. Also the games are not that robotic as you can select your teammates by selecting the team you are on. Therefor it is not fully predestined and set in stone where you cannot select your team. Also you have to realize that for the most part playing games against one another is a friendly competition type of style. It does not separate us as a community since our love for the game/server is what brings us together. No one is forcing them to play a game with anyone, as again there is solo, and they are not being forced to be together.

 

[ChasingRainbows]

I agree. If all they are gonna do is a 1 day ban, might as well allow teaming. The fact that cubecraft bothered to make it a rule and even bothered to put in the actual lobbies but then didn't make a real punishment to back it up is a joke.

 

[Pillow]

Personally, I strongly oppose against teaming, as it gives those players that do not have teammates an almost guaranteed loss.

 

[Rob_the_Giraffe]

I think this will never be added to Cubecraft because teaming is already a big problem. I personally have 1100 handled reports on teamers and I like to assume that all of them were well warranted. Teaming bans should stack and if they do it would decrease the teaming drastically.

 

[Gainfullterror]

I'm going to be extemely frank: I don't like this.
Why?
-People hate teaming in FFA as it is
-People will have yet another excuse when being banned for teaming, and this can't always be a "oh sure you didn't" moment
-Reducing the amount of teaming reports like this isn't how they should be catching up with reports. New staff members are being recruited frequently, and basically making the "no teaming in solo" rule pretty redundant sometimes is not the way to reduce reports.
-Yes, people like us may be able to face a team, but not everyone is good enough to take out any player, let alone a team. Imagine facing a team of skilled players that constantly tank each others' hits so the other can regen. It'd be a nightmare.
-Team Skywars would die out if the maps were introduced to the "ffa mode"

I can list a more detailed explanation for most of these and I will if you want it.

 

[NightSkies]

WTF how do you have 1588 reports

Please don't reply to threads that have not had activity for at least two weeks.

@AnimalTamer1 @JaiStrixZ @LanceDaniels lock?

 

[Tacosfanboy04]

What do you mean @NightSkies I don't know how the heck he has 1588 handled reports. That is more people than there are online on Cubecraft at the moment

 

[AnimalTamer1]

WTF how do you have 1588 reports

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