Java Bedrock CPS Cap Discussion

[pekd]

i think a 17 cps limit would be perfect, as 15 is still possible to do without double clicking or abuse clicking

 

[ProfParzival]

The current version of the cap/limiter we have does not ban or kick a player, regardless if they are hitting a consistent cps limit. Though my concern with 20-25cps is that mobile players will have a much more difficult time playing against PC players, similar to how things are currently. As a Bedrock community, for the most part, you want to keep a balance between platforms as best as you can, so lowering it is actually better, in my opinion.

I'm not a KBM player but if the platform wants to attract the best players which in turn will probably make the platform more attractive to others (the top players are influencers) then limiting their capabilities down to the lowest common denominator (eg so that mobile players have a chance) feels like not the way to go.. I fear that will only be likely to ensure that the best players don't play on the platform at all and we just end up with a bland platform catering mostly to touch control players.

Most decent players already avoid many cube game modes because games get repetitive cos they're literally just killing nons and it's simply not a challenge, eggwars solos was like that for a long while until season 1 added a bit of competition into it.

Many good players just follow the crowd and jump ship to other platforms, but I would have thought that it would be in Cubecrafts interest to do as much as possible to keep them on the platform not turn them away from it.

In all honesty this all screams of the need for ranked matches and private games. Give the top players a challenge.. they'll create content that will inspire new players to get on and play, and as much as I like giga blockwars for just dumb fun, wouldn't it be better to cater for the really good KBM players with ranked matches / duels etc and keep it competitive?

 

[Clovate]

A CPS cap/limiter is a terrible idea for quite a few reasons.

1: No one can agree on what CPS the limit should be

2: Everyone here is suggesting stupid limits for CPS such as 15 and 16 when I'm friends with people who can click 17-18 jitter consistently without any doubles or a broken mouse

3: A 20 CPS limit (Which I see as the most likely number that will be set as the limit) is problematic for a few reasons. It's super easy to get a 17/18ps auto clicker which the anti cheat wont flag for and 20 CPS is too low for players who already click fast and double click. For example, I can click up to 15 CPS no doubles, so why should I be restricted on my ability to double click where someone who clocks 9 without doubles can double click and stay under the CPS limit. You could simply say to "click slower" but it's quite hard to do in PVP considering I've built up all my aim and muscle memory clicking at a speed which is natural to me. The only thing a 20 CPS limit achieves is allows people who naturally click slow to cheat and people who naturally click fast to get punished

4: All the best players and content creators on the server double click in PVP, so banning so will lower the quality of gameplay coming out of your server and make the server less appealing to new players and aspiring content creators

5: Too much server lag on cube so the CPS will stack like it does on zeqa and false flag people

6: Forgot to mention this yesterday so I'm editing it in now but there isn't a working double click prevention software that anyone can use (At least not anything open to the public). Sure, there is DC prevent, but DC prevent doesn't cancel out double clicks, it makes a 55ms delay after you click where you can't register another click until the 55ms is over. This means that using DC prevent, you can only achieve 18 CPS no matter what you do. This doesn't sound too bad because no one really hits 18 CPS right? Well it's true, but DC prevent ends up cancelling real physical inputs, not just double clicks. Someone is going to ask how I know this for a fact so I'll explain now to save myself time later. So butterfly clicking or burst butterfly clicking is a method where you alternate your index finger and middle finger to hit your left or right mouse button to accelerate the rate of clicks being registered. When someone butterflies, there is usually a smaller gap between when your first and second finger hits than there is when you finish the butterfly motion, raise your fingers up to butterfly again and then hit your first finger. Due to the clicks being closer together in this clicking method than that of jitter clicking at the same speed, DC prevent cancels these clicks out. I can click 15 CPS without doubles on a mouse and when I butterfly on DC prevent, my clicks can get cancelled out as low as 7 (Although usually my CPS will stay in the 9-11 range). If I have my index finger on my left click and middle finger on my right click however and complete a butterfly motion so my index and middle fingers hit their respected button, I achieve an average of 6-7 on each side easily (Which adds up to 12-14 CPS combined). DC prevent and other softwares are either not available for everyone or don't work which means that people will have to buy new mices or they can not play cubecraft. Pay to play is a lot worse than pay to win.

Please do not add a CPS cap/limiter. It is stupid and there are no ways around double clicking for a lot of people. Some mice like my own do not have a working debounce time and double click prevention softwares are absolutely terrible.

To be honest I agree with this, but (correct me if I'm wrong) I'm pretty sure Sentinel can detect autoclickers, since its pretty suspicious when someone's cps is constantly the same. But other than that, it just sounds like another way for them to try to get rid of cheaters, but it's so time consuming to get rid of every single person whose double clicking that they should just scrap the rule altogether along with a cps cap.

 

[RaisinForABrain]

To be honest I agree with this, but (correct me if I'm wrong) I'm pretty sure Sentinel can detect autoclickers, since its pretty suspicious when someone's cps is constantly the same. But other than that, it just sounds like another way for them to try to get rid of cheaters, but it's so time consuming to get rid of every single person whose double clicking that they should just scrap the rule altogether along with a cps cap.

Sentinel detects cps if you consistently click like 35+ or 50 consistent or something but it's very high. I don't think that they should scrap the rule in public games because double clicking is not an intended feature of any mouse and it's an unfair advantage but I think in any 1v1 game mode with friends, it should be treated like the cross teaming rule. If all players consent, it's allowed

 

[DarkStray]

In terms of CPS limits, if this was to go ahead, I think a standard of 15cps would be more in the fair range, as you usually get around 13-14 when butterfly/jitter-clicking (not including double-clicking or drag), and it makes things much fairer for those on mobile or console devices. My point of view is specifically about Bedrock since that is the leading platform I play on.

I understand that USUALLY people will click around 13-14 with these methods, but what about people who are above that average? Like me? I typically click 16-18 when I play.
Would Sentinel Ban me? Or would it kick me from games?

Spoiler: My CPS with handcam

I understand what your saying but a cps limit of 15 is VERY low considering I am not the only on on cubecraft who clicks 15+ on average. It's not something I can really control when jitter clicking, as it is just basically a muscle spasm.

In my point of view setting a cap around 20+ would be the best option, as I have not seen anyone click 20+ without doubles. My complete maximum cps right now is 18+ and you can see this on some of my recent streams currently. making that 2 cps window is fairly reasonable.




MY Servers AntiCheat Detection for CPS
My server on Java(not advertising here, it's not even released as I am working stuff and testing it out) Detects NOT the players CPS but their timing in between clicks, for example if a player clicks multiple times within 20ms(for example, that's 50cps if it's 20ms every time )But if a player clicks once, and again within 20ms then clicks again after 100ms and repeats that pattern or has the clicks within 20ms more than 30% of the time within the last 100 clicks it bans them

Current settings
cpsDetect: amount: 30 banDays: 30 doubleClickDetect: percentage: 60 clicks: 1500 banDays: 15 doubleClickPeriod: 35 # In Miliseconds (Multiple clicks within this period is considered a double click) messages: cpsBan: "&cYou have been banned from the &6&l(XXXXXXXX) &cfor reaching more than 20 CPS. &7Time left: &6&l{DAYS}d {HOURS}h {MINUTES}m&7." doubleClickBan: "&cYou have been banned from the &6&l(XXXXXXXX) &cfor Double Clicking. &7Time left: &6&l{DAYS}d {HOURS}h {MINUTES}m&7." permBan: "&cYou have been permanently banned from this server for violating the server rules." permBanAfterInfractions: 4

Spoiler: My Server Anticheat Working

Why is "DoubleClickPeriod" set to 28 cps when the cps limit is 30?
Because Mechanical Double clicks happen over time, typically they happen in under 20ms but I found that having it slightly lower than the cps limit is better*, as autoclickers will get banned INSTANTLY for hitting over 30cps in a short amount of time, compared to people that are LEGITMATLY clicking their mouse button, sometimes double clicks happen not on purpose, due to this there is the Double Click limit, which is set to 60%, in reality this is 30% double clicks though!. because if you double click 1cps = 2cps, meaning that is 50% doubles, Obviously, but since my anticheat is running off a time period having it set for 60% looks at how many clicks happened within that time. So it sees BOTH clicks that happened as a "Doubleclick", meaning that the single double click is seen as 100%, Additionally that is why there is a Clicks option set to 1500, which is around 10seconds of clicking between left & right click.
And furthermore this only records clicks registered by the server, EX: Clicking players, placing blocks, interacting. Meaning you can drag click in the air and not get banned, as some people like running around lobbies doing those sort of things but don't intend to cheat on the server

* And when double clicking you don't actually achieve 28 cps, you can click 10cps with doubles and have doubles happen within 0.035 seconds of each other, another reason it's below the cps limit

 

[privqted]

20-25 would be a perfect cps cap. with dc and drag allowed on the server

 

[Reesle]

To be honest I agree with this, but (correct me if I'm wrong) I'm pretty sure Sentinel can detect autoclickers, since its pretty suspicious when someone's cps is constantly the same. But other than that, it just sounds like another way for them to try to get rid of cheaters, but it's so time consuming to get rid of every single person whose double clicking that they should just scrap the rule altogether along with a cps cap.

I disagree with removing double clicking, because than it becomes unfair to mobile/controller players.

 

[wTBone]

20 should be the limit for only left click, and maybe taking out double clicking as against the rules if there was a cap

 

[M8KI05]

This would be great. They avoid autoclickers, macros and illegal click methods, I think that 15 cps would be a good option to try it.

 

[Clovate]

This would be great. They avoid autoclickers, macros and illegal click methods, I think that 15 cps would be a good option to try it.

I feel like 15 cps is too low of a cap, since there are many players that can jitter 17-18 cps and would cause many false bans

 

[legendaryfox977]

This would be great. They avoid autoclickers, macros and illegal click methods, I think that 15 cps would be a good option to try it.

Mobile players can click more than 15 cps same as controller and pc players I don’t see any reason why it should be 15 as it might be too low, something around 20-22 should be good.

 

[RaisinForABrain]

Mobile players can click more than 15 cps same as controller and pc players I don’t see any reason why it should be 15 as it might be too low, something around 20-22 should be good.

Controller layers don't get above 15 unless they double click, have a broken controller, or auto/macro

 

[legendaryfox977]

Controller layers don't get above 15 unless they double click, have a broken controller, or auto/macro

It is possible to get more than 15 cps con controller if you change the default controls.

 

[RaisinForABrain]

It is possible to get more than 15 cps con controller if you change the default controls.

Show me someone legit hitting it. I've personally never seen or heard of anyone who can click above 15 on a controller in pvp without using a clicking method that would be considered cheating by cubecraft

 

[hotcoffee]

Hi, gues. It s good idea only for bedrock. In bedrock play mobile gamers(75%), And I know how hard it is. Add cps limit (10-15 cps)

 

[DarkStray]

Controller layers don't get above 15 unless they double click, have a broken controller, or auto/macro

I can jittercl;ick 16+ on controller, not playable though so I doubt anyone actually uses it

Hi, gues. It s good idea only for bedrock. In bedrock play mobile gamers(75%), And I know how hard it is. Add cps limit (10-15 cps)

Most people on bedrock are actually consoles! (Xbox, Playstation, Nintendo Switch) with Mobile being the close second and the PC players being the smallest of them all.
Atleast in my last community talk in the cubecraft discord this is what we were told.

I disagree with removing double clicking, because than it becomes unfair to mobile/controller players.

Not only controller/Touch players but other PC players as well, because there are people that play trackpad and most people normal click(which doesn't double if you truly normal click) and it's also dependent on what mouse you buy, some office mice double and others, when they do double, cancel out basically all the clicks so it is not fair to 90% of the players on the network.

Due to doubles being dependent on what hardware you have, hardware not software, it completely depends on how well you do with what mouse you buy, making it not fair whilst on every mouse you have the ability to not double by actually normal clicking.

 

[Shmee1501655]

This is a nice idea, but this isn't 1.8.9 PvP. I see with bedrock edition though. Maybe bedrock edition should have one.

 

[RaisinForABrain]

I can jittercl;ick 16+ on controller, not playable though so I doubt anyone actually uses it

Most people on bedrock are actually consoles! (Xbox, Playstation, Nintendo Switch) with Mobile being the close second and the PC players being the smallest of them all.
Atleast in my last community talk in the cubecraft discord this is what we were told.

Not only controller/Touch players but other PC players as well, because there are people that play trackpad and most people normal click(which doesn't double if you truly normal click) and it's also dependent on what mouse you buy, some office mice double and others, when they do double, cancel out basically all the clicks so it is not fair to 90% of the players on the network.

Due to doubles being dependent on what hardware you have, hardware not software, it completely depends on how well you do with what mouse you buy, making it not fair whilst on every mouse you have the ability to not double by actually normal clicking.

Yeah no one's using 15+ on a controller in pvp while being legit that I've seen

 

[smoothiii]

CPS capping is a double-edged sword, It will make autoclickers and cheaters much more weak at the cost of lowering the skillgap, especially because in the bedrock server is platform locked I'd say if you want to make a CPS cap it should be 20 So those who mastered clicking fast will be rewarded for it, I myself click at 8-9 CPS and can compete with those who click twice as fast as me.

 

[Flxxme]

I'm gonna say no. I feel like the more anti-cheat stuff they add the less fun the game gets