Bedrock Drag Clicking / Double Clicking need to be banned

[AngeieTheBoi]

Hello!

What is Drag Clicking / Double Clicking?

Drag clicking is your type of click which consists of dragging your finger on the mouse to make a certain number of clicks, double clicking is when you click once, it is registered as 2 or more clicks.

For that reason, players can achieve a higher number of clicks per second.

The Issue

Cubecraft has long allowed players to use drag click and double click, however, drag click cannot be used with tape as it is considered a "physical modification", taking this into account, it could be said that double clicking is also a physical modification, since some players modify their mouse / break it, in order to use double click, also it is impossible to know if someone drags with or without tape, there are also some who drag with tape residue and this is practically undetectable.

One of the main arguments when these types of clicks were allowed was that Cubecraft had a good matchmaking, where it matched you with people on your platform for example: Computer / Console / Phone, but this is not true, with the drop in Cubecraft players, it usually matches you with whoever, especially in larger game modes like Squads / Mega / Blockwars, something which since these clicks were allowed, makes Console and Phone players have a big disadvantage over PC players, considering that also players of Console and phone represent the largest percentage of players that play the server, making there be a giant skill gap between the players of the server, that being said, I will continue to the next problem, since these type of clicks were admitted, a large percentage of players took advantage to use "macro", since it is difficult to know if they use legal or illegal methods, having to gather a lot of evidence so that these players can be sanctioned, this problem happens mainly in Eggwars and Skywars, it could be said that more than 90% of the players that put many blocks do it with macro of 70-200 cps, cubecraft is supposed to have a cps limiter, but it seems that this does not exist, since you can notice the difference between someone that uses macro of 30 to someone that uses macro of 200 or more, other people even use "Scaffold", which makes them put blocks below them automatically when they are going to fall into the void, something which shows that they use the rule to do illegal actions something which is supposed to It is not the point, also, in these issues we cannot argue with Java servers like Hypixel since they do not have Console and Phone players that generate such a large skill gap, some say that these clicks should be legal because they are practically clicks like the JitterClick or the Butterfly click, in the case of the double click, no, the double click is based on the fact that for each click two or more clicks are detected, something which does not happen in the jitter, with respect to the drag, this one here can be considered a click, but as I already mentioned, it is impossible to know if it is used or not with tape and even worse if it is used with tape residue and finally I know that several players in the past have been banned for using double click accidentally with their mouse, so I will give the following solutions.​

The Solution

The solutions to this problem are varied, first let me clarify something, if double click / drag click were to be banned, players who accidentally place a certain amount of blocks that do not affect the game, should not be penalized, since in the past certain people have been penalized for very short clicks where they accidentally place 2-6 blocks with double clicks, now I will continue, first and most effective, ban drag and double click on the entire server, this would be like going back in time and it would be the most effective, combining it with a cps limiter that DOES WORK, second, just add a cps limiter that DOES WORK, limiting the cps of all players to 20-30 cps at most, this would help, but it would not be as effective as the first method.


ThaS​

Hello!

What is Drag Clicking / Double Clicking?

Drag clicking is your type of click which consists of dragging your finger on the mouse to make a certain number of clicks, double clicking is when you click once, it is registered as 2 or more clicks.

For that reason, players can achieve a higher number of clicks per second.

The Issue

Cubecraft has long allowed players to use drag click and double click, however, drag click cannot be used with tape as it is considered a "physical modification", taking this into account, it could be said that double clicking is also a physical modification, since some players modify their mouse / break it, in order to use double click, also it is impossible to know if someone drags with or without tape, there are also some who drag with tape residue and this is practically undetectable.

One of the main arguments when these types of clicks were allowed was that Cubecraft had a good matchmaking, where it matched you with people on your platform for example: Computer / Console / Phone, but this is not true, with the drop in Cubecraft players, it usually matches you with whoever, especially in larger game modes like Squads / Mega / Blockwars, something which since these clicks were allowed, makes Console and Phone players have a big disadvantage over PC players, considering that also players of Console and phone represent the largest percentage of players that play the server, making there be a giant skill gap between the players of the server, that being said, I will continue to the next problem, since these type of clicks were admitted, a large percentage of players took advantage to use "macro", since it is difficult to know if they use legal or illegal methods, having to gather a lot of evidence so that these players can be sanctioned, this problem happens mainly in Eggwars and Skywars, it could be said that more than 90% of the players that put many blocks do it with macro of 70-200 cps, cubecraft is supposed to have a cps limiter, but it seems that this does not exist, since you can notice the difference between someone that uses macro of 30 to someone that uses macro of 200 or more, other people even use "Scaffold", which makes them put blocks below them automatically when they are going to fall into the void, something which shows that they use the rule to do illegal actions something which is supposed to It is not the point, also, in these issues we cannot argue with Java servers like Hypixel since they do not have Console and Phone players that generate such a large skill gap, some say that these clicks should be legal because they are practically clicks like the JitterClick or the Butterfly click, in the case of the double click, no, the double click is based on the fact that for each click two or more clicks are detected, something which does not happen in the jitter, with respect to the drag, this one here can be considered a click, but as I already mentioned, it is impossible to know if it is used or not with tape and even worse if it is used with tape residue and finally I know that several players in the past have been banned for using double click accidentally with their mouse, so I will give the following solutions.​

The Solution

The solutions to this problem are varied, first let me clarify something, if double click / drag click were to be banned, players who accidentally place a certain amount of blocks that do not affect the game, should not be penalized, since in the past certain people have been penalized for very short clicks where they accidentally place 2-6 blocks with double clicks, now I will continue, first and most effective, ban drag and double click on the entire server, this would be like going back in time and it would be the most effective, combining it with a cps limiter that DOES WORK, second, just add a cps limiter that DOES WORK, limiting the cps of all players to 20-30 cps at most, this would help, but it would not be as effective as the first method.


Thanks.​

If you wanted to say you're bad at the game you couldve just said so. Drag clicking is not cheating and anyone can learn it. Same with butterfly or any other clicking method. If you're gonna ban these might aswell ban jitter clicking too cause not everyone can do it. You see not all mice have DC and I understand that, but not all people have the ability to jitter click either. Some people cannot tense their arms correctly in order to jitter so they go to butterfly.
Now what's sad is that i can jitter 17 CPS consistently however I don't know anyone that can non DC butterfly over 15.

PS: If you're angry at getting killed in sweat lobbies with leaderboard players I suggest you just improve your gameplay instead of complaining about it on threads. Learn to play the game or simply leave sweat lobbies if it truly bothers you this much. I never double click. I only jitter, and guess what in sweat lobbies, yes they use drag, yes they make 20 block extensions but so what? You can still beat them if you're good enough.

I see most of the players have gotten to the admins - mods heads. They are making the server purely noob friendly and making any sort of skill irrelevant, this is stupid as PVP is meant to be a skill based gamemode. They already banned so much and changed so much in your favour. Please stop complaining about it. They only look at threads of people like you, but never people that actually grinded that server such as me.

If you die in the game, its YOUR fault. You are not good enough yet to win against that player. It's literally a skill based game, a skill you haven't developed because obviously every time you die you blame it on the other person not realising you're the one that needs improving. Why should the other person be looked down on for being better at the game? I'll never understand your mindset.

Reply if you want.

 

[adrian525pl]

Drag clicking is not cheating and anyone can learn it.

Mobile players can't, Console Players can't. Anyone who isn't using mouse and keyboard can't.

If you're gonna ban these might aswell ban jitter clicking too cause not everyone can do it.

Yes. The only reason it wasn't included in the initial suggestion is probably because the author of the post forgot it existed.

Some people cannot tense their arms correctly in order to jitter so they go to butterfly.
Now what's sad is that i can jitter 17 CPS consistently however I don't know anyone that can non DC butterfly over 15.

Not sure how your CPS rate is relevant to anything, but good for you I suppose.

PS: If you're angry at getting killed in sweat lobbies with leaderboard players I suggest you just improve your gameplay instead of complaining about it on threads. Learn to play the game or simply leave sweat lobbies if it truly bothers you this much. I never double click. I only jitter, and guess what in sweat lobbies, yes they use drag, yes they make 20 block extensions but so what? You can still beat them if you're good enough.

Yeah, because everyone has time to spend 8 hours a day grinding minecraft minigames with little to no improvement every day to hopefully, some day, be able to kill a 13 year old who's not seen the sun ever since he installed minecraft. /s

"just improve" ain't an actual solution, not with the amount of effort and time it takes.

I see most of the players have gotten to the admins - mods heads. They are making the server purely noob friendly and making any sort of skill irrelevant, this is stupid as PVP is meant to be a skill based gamemode.

Its not stupid. PVP itself, as a minecraft feature PvP only exists as a purely optional part of the game that is, and never has been, the games primary focus. 1.9+ java versions, and how boring they made PvP, being proof of that.

And secondly, is it really supposed to be skill based? Last I checked PvP only includes 2 actual skills with any level of difficulty, that being aim and movement. Not to mention plenty of items designed purely to make PvP easier, such as potions, tipped arrows, netherite armor, enchated armor, enchanted weapons.

No, PvP ain't supposed to nearly as skill based as you claim it to be, at least not as the game designers and developers intend it. Not for as long as harming potions exist. Not for as long as harming II means 6 hearts of damage. Not for as long as netherite armor exists, which almost completely eliminates the need for jump resetting because you take next to no KB. Not for as long as things exist like the enchanted golden apple.

Now cubecraft may have a different vision of PvP than the minecraft Devs (to a degree), but PvP ain't supposed to be a skill heavy part of the game by its design. We got way too many ingame items that make PvP super easy as proof of that.

(NOTE that we differentiate PvP and PvE*, because the games design is catered more towards PvE)
*PvE stands for player versus environment, fights against mobs fall into that cathegory.

Please stop complaining about it.

No, and you can't do anything about it :)

They only look at threads of people like you, but never people that actually grinded that server such as me.

And for good reason. You and other "sweats" are a massive threat to just about any online gaming community they become a part of. If the games large enough, skill based matchmaking is implemented just to separate you from everyone else. When its not, or when the budget or dev team isn't large enough for it, then you gotta get a bit more creative with dealing with you.

OR extremely straight forward, as cubecraft so often does.

Players like you are the reason games become unplayable over time, why just to become "average" in some games you have to put in hours most people aren't gonna have the time for. Why games straight up die sometimes. Why games implement skill based matchmaking when it originally wasn't there. Why servers, such as hypixel, have a cap where players below a certain level can only face other low level players.

You are also the reason why players quit or why attracting new players becomes hard sometimes. Not everyone likes being completely destroyed by some rando who visibly spends way too much time playing a game.

And as long as that is a thing, no sane game developer or game designed of anything that is not a game specifically made to be highly competitive and highly difficult is ever gonna listen to you. Developers of games like fortnite already made the mistake of listening to you, which later resulted in the introduction of skill based matchmaking and gamemodes where entire game mechanics are removed just to make the level required to be able to not to badly the game lower.


Hell, its not even the part where you are skilled that's the actual problem. In fact, that itself is not much of an issue. Its the part where you take the game very seriously. You may heard sweats being referred to as "tryhards" as well. Well, its the part where you are trying hard that more often is the problem.

Skill is perfectly fine, as long as you don't go "too far". For example: aim skills come and stay naturally over time, a good player would have to actively choose to aim worse once they reach a certain level.

However things like jitter or butterfly or whatever other high clicking method you can come up with are past the point where you are trying too hard, because unlike aim, which can develop mostly and stays naturally, to butterfly click you have to actively learn how to do it AND actively choose to apply it over just normally tapping your mouse buttons. Not to mention the often necessary expense of buying a mouse for it, because normal mice usually can't handle that much fast clicking for too long or too well.


The problem isn't being skilled at the game, its being too dedicated to the game and too dedicated to being skilled at the game and too dedicated to doing well at it. Keyword here being TOO, because you gotta do it TO A DEGREE for the game to even make sense.

If you die in the game, its YOUR fault.

Absolutely not. Not with all of the things I mentioned as proof PvP isn't supposed to be that skill based, and not with the amount of times you can die by accident or for reasons completely outside your control.

Or are you seriously gonna claim that having a knockback sword used on me by suprise is my fault? Or that having half a dozen harming II potions thrown into my face is my fault? Of course, those things are not that likely in most cubecraft minigames (the most notable exception, and the only one I am actively aware of, being blockwars), but those are things that happen ingame that lead to your death that aren't exactly your fault.


Being good at the game reduces the chances of dying, but it doesn't nullify them, because again: PvP ISN'T supposed to be fully skill based. There are gonna be things where your control is limited or non-existent, and that's how its supposed to be.

Why should the other person be looked down on for being better at the game?

Depends what skills they develop. If its movement or aim, well, nobody is looking down upon those guys, because those skills develop and stay around naturally by just playing the game.

If its something like jitter-, or double-, or butterfly-, or something else-clicking, well, its because that player shows an unhealthy dedication to becoming good at the game and doing well at it despite absolutely not having to do so. Because again: the problem isn't the skills themselves, its the dedication and the act of "trying hard".

I'll never understand your mindset.

You mean the mindset where we want to ensure that we have fun, and unlike you, also care about others having fun? Of course you won't understand, you someone from the most selfish player group that exists in any given online game. Case in point: you constantly keep complaining about the devs not listening to you while failing to understand the likes of you, as much hard as they cause, make up the minority of most of the communities they are a part of.

Of course they're not gonna listen to you when the changes you suggest benefit only the likes of you, and not the other 99% of the servers playerbase. They aren't the US government to only do things that benefit the top 1%, and literally nobody else, because unlike the US government, they benefit more from the other 99% being satisified.

 

[elderlysnake123]

it could be said that double clicking is also a physical modification, since some players modify their mouse / break it, in order to use double click

I agree that drag clicking should be banned and a lower CPS cap should be implemented, but not so much for doubles. I believe that double clicking is in no way a physical modification. A lot of mice double click naturally and software helps to reduce this. There is no need to break and or "modify" a mouse to make it double click more and anyone who uses a "broken mouse" likely had that happen from natural causes. Also, you can clutch pretty well by butterfly clicking, but it is no where near as insane as drag clicking, you can easily tell which is which and it should help reduce the number of people auto clicking. (I agree with banning drag clicking but not double clicking)

But don't you see, any clicking method can be used as a mask for cheaters. Your blaming a method of clicking instead of players who cheat

You can see a very big difference between "drag clicking" and butterfly clicking when watching someone place blocks. As of now, everyone who autos a large amount just say they drag and get away with it.

Don't mobile players have higher reach? I can't do this, so how is that also fair?

Everyone who plays has three blocks of reach, anymore than this is cheating.

to butterfly click you have to actively learn how to do it AND actively choose to apply it over just normally tapping your mouse buttons.

I feel like this argument is just a bit dumb, butterfly clicking shouldn't be allowed because you have to learn it? Also office mice can still butterfly click, it isn't limited to gaming mice(which are also the cost of a normal controller)

The problem isn't being skilled at the game, its being too dedicated to the game and too dedicated to being skilled at the game and too dedicated to doing well at it. Keyword here being TOO, because you gotta do it TO A DEGREE for the game to even make sense.

Once again, a bit dumb. You are currently just saying that people shouldn't be good at the game because it makes it unfun for others. Every game needs a comp or it will also die. The issue is that drag clicking takes away from part of the skill aspect of the game. I personally cannot drag click to clutch but I do use it to PVP. It definitely makes stuff like holding combos much easier but it isn't a complete gamechanger. On the other hand, in eggwars it is. Every time I've played "competitive" eggwars games, the other team is unavoidable. Drag clicking is currently something people use to say that they aren't cheating when they clearly are, it isn't something thats broken because everyone just put in the time and effort to be super good at it. (i also just realized i should've put everything into one message)

 

[onepiece]

I completely agree with you. The big amount of this „drag“ clickers are for very long time average players and surprisingly they turn over night to amazing drag clickers. And as u say, nobody can see if they use tape or not. Cps limit would help a lot, max 15-20 cps would be more then enough since this is what butterfly click users can reach. Dear Cubecraft staff pls go back to normal clicking methods and reduce cps limit. And don’t listen to relatednoobs who is not even playing cubecraft server and who doesn know how much pain it is to fight „drag“ clicking ppl.

If you wanted to say you're bad at the game you couldve just said so. Drag clicking is not cheating and anyone can learn it. Same with butterfly or any other clicking method. If you're gonna ban these might aswell ban jitter clicking too cause not everyone can do it. You see not all mice have DC and I understand that, but not all people have the ability to jitter click either. Some people cannot tense their arms correctly in order to jitter so they go to butterfly.
Now what's sad is that i can jitter 17 CPS consistently however I don't know anyone that can non DC butterfly over 15.

PS: If you're angry at getting killed in sweat lobbies with leaderboard players I suggest you just improve your gameplay instead of complaining about it on threads. Learn to play the game or simply leave sweat lobbies if it truly bothers you this much. I never double click. I only jitter, and guess what in sweat lobbies, yes they use drag, yes they make 20 block extensions but so what? You can still beat them if you're good enough.

I see most of the players have gotten to the admins - mods heads. They are making the server purely noob friendly and making any sort of skill irrelevant, this is stupid as PVP is meant to be a skill based gamemode. They already banned so much and changed so much in your favour. Please stop complaining about it. They only look at threads of people like you, but never people that actually grinded that server such as me.

If you die in the game, its YOUR fault. You are not good enough yet to win against that player. It's literally a skill based game, a skill you haven't developed because obviously every time you die you blame it on the other person not realising you're the one that needs improving. Why should the other person be looked down on for being better at the game? I'll never understand your mindset.

Reply if you want.

Bro I’m a lb player and played this server for 3 years and I drag and I say drag click should be banned and it’s cheating and bro said sweat lobbies with leaderboard players most of lb players don’t even play now and who u call sweat most of them auto it’s easy to use macro now cus they allowed drag click and drag is not that diff than auto alomst same thing and u probably a non who play only ctf and don’t even play egg war . Egg war got worse it’s full of hacks and ppl who use macro and don’t even get bann tho they still bad with it and bro said drag is skills Cc was way better before they allowed drag click and double now anyone can macro and say he is drag or double click Even if they put cps limits u still can macro best thing is to bann drag . if I see u in cc u done lil bro

 

[adrian525pl]

I feel like this argument is just a bit dumb, butterfly clicking shouldn't be allowed because you have to learn it?

I never said that's why it should be banned, I said that's why its gonna be viewed at different than the more "natural" skills.

You are currently just saying that people shouldn't be good at the game because it makes it unfun for others.

No, I specifically, several times, said its about TRYING HARD, not about being good. You need to separate these two, they are completly unrelated to each other. You can do one of these without the other, and its only one that's the problem

You can be good, you should probably, but you shouldn't try hard because THAT is what ruins the fun for others.

 

[elderlysnake123]

I never said that's why it should be banned, I said that's why its gonna be viewed at different than the more "natural" skills.

What are some more natural skills? Butterfly clicking is pretty much normal clicking but you use two fingers instead of one. It really is not hard to learn nor is it much different.

No, I specifically, several times, said its about TRYING HARD, not about being good. You need to separate these two, they are completly unrelated to each other. You can do one of these without the other, and its only one that's the problem

I'm not understanding, are you telling me that you shouldn't be trying to win when you play? Either way, any decent player doesn't really have to try hard to win the average game of eggwars, their "skill" just makes it kind of easy.

 

[Mappoe]

Mobile players can't, Console Players can't. Anyone who isn't using mouse and keyboard can't.


Yes. The only reason it wasn't included in the initial suggestion is probably because the author of the post forgot it existed.


Not sure how your CPS rate is relevant to anything, but good for you I suppose.



Yeah, because everyone has time to spend 8 hours a day grinding minecraft minigames with little to no improvement every day to hopefully, some day, be able to kill a 13 year old who's not seen the sun ever since he installed minecraft. /s

"just improve" ain't an actual solution, not with the amount of effort and time it takes.




Its not stupid. PVP itself, as a minecraft feature PvP only exists as a purely optional part of the game that is, and never has been, the games primary focus. 1.9+ java versions, and how boring they made PvP, being proof of that.

And secondly, is it really supposed to be skill based? Last I checked PvP only includes 2 actual skills with any level of difficulty, that being aim and movement. Not to mention plenty of items designed purely to make PvP easier, such as potions, tipped arrows, netherite armor, enchated armor, enchanted weapons.

No, PvP ain't supposed to nearly as skill based as you claim it to be, at least not as the game designers and developers intend it. Not for as long as harming potions exist. Not for as long as harming II means 6 hearts of damage. Not for as long as netherite armor exists, which almost completely eliminates the need for jump resetting because you take next to no KB. Not for as long as things exist like the enchanted golden apple.

Now cubecraft may have a different vision of PvP than the minecraft Devs (to a degree), but PvP ain't supposed to be a skill heavy part of the game by its design. We got way too many ingame items that make PvP super easy as proof of that.

(NOTE that we differentiate PvP and PvE*, because the games design is catered more towards PvE)
*PvE stands for player versus environment, fights against mobs fall into that cathegory.




No, and you can't do anything about it :)



And for good reason. You and other "sweats" are a massive threat to just about any online gaming community they become a part of. If the games large enough, skill based matchmaking is implemented just to separate you from everyone else. When its not, or when the budget or dev team isn't large enough for it, then you gotta get a bit more creative with dealing with you.

OR extremely straight forward, as cubecraft so often does.

Players like you are the reason games become unplayable over time, why just to become "average" in some games you have to put in hours most people aren't gonna have the time for. Why games straight up die sometimes. Why games implement skill based matchmaking when it originally wasn't there. Why servers, such as hypixel, have a cap where players below a certain level can only face other low level players.

You are also the reason why players quit or why attracting new players becomes hard sometimes. Not everyone likes being completely destroyed by some rando who visibly spends way too much time playing a game.

And as long as that is a thing, no sane game developer or game designed of anything that is not a game specifically made to be highly competitive and highly difficult is ever gonna listen to you. Developers of games like fortnite already made the mistake of listening to you, which later resulted in the introduction of skill based matchmaking and gamemodes where entire game mechanics are removed just to make the level required to be able to not to badly the game lower.


Hell, its not even the part where you are skilled that's the actual problem. In fact, that itself is not much of an issue. Its the part where you take the game very seriously. You may heard sweats being referred to as "tryhards" as well. Well, its the part where you are trying hard that more often is the problem.

Skill is perfectly fine, as long as you don't go "too far". For example: aim skills come and stay naturally over time, a good player would have to actively choose to aim worse once they reach a certain level.

However things like jitter or butterfly or whatever other high clicking method you can come up with are past the point where you are trying too hard, because unlike aim, which can develop mostly and stays naturally, to butterfly click you have to actively learn how to do it AND actively choose to apply it over just normally tapping your mouse buttons. Not to mention the often necessary expense of buying a mouse for it, because normal mice usually can't handle that much fast clicking for too long or too well.


The problem isn't being skilled at the game, its being too dedicated to the game and too dedicated to being skilled at the game and too dedicated to doing well at it. Keyword here being TOO, because you gotta do it TO A DEGREE for the game to even make sense.



Absolutely not. Not with all of the things I mentioned as proof PvP isn't supposed to be that skill based, and not with the amount of times you can die by accident or for reasons completely outside your control.

Or are you seriously gonna claim that having a knockback sword used on me by suprise is my fault? Or that having half a dozen harming II potions thrown into my face is my fault? Of course, those things are not that likely in most cubecraft minigames (the most notable exception, and the only one I am actively aware of, being blockwars), but those are things that happen ingame that lead to your death that aren't exactly your fault.


Being good at the game reduces the chances of dying, but it doesn't nullify them, because again: PvP ISN'T supposed to be fully skill based. There are gonna be things where your control is limited or non-existent, and that's how its supposed to be.





Depends what skills they develop. If its movement or aim, well, nobody is looking down upon those guys, because those skills develop and stay around naturally by just playing the game.

If its something like jitter-, or double-, or butterfly-, or something else-clicking, well, its because that player shows an unhealthy dedication to becoming good at the game and doing well at it despite absolutely not having to do so. Because again: the problem isn't the skills themselves, its the dedication and the act of "trying hard".




You mean the mindset where we want to ensure that we have fun, and unlike you, also care about others having fun? Of course you won't understand, you someone from the most selfish player group that exists in any given online game. Case in point: you constantly keep complaining about the devs not listening to you while failing to understand the likes of you, as much hard as they cause, make up the minority of most of the communities they are a part of.

Of course they're not gonna listen to you when the changes you suggest benefit only the likes of you, and not the other 99% of the servers playerbase. They aren't the US government to only do things that benefit the top 1%, and literally nobody else, because unlike the US government, they benefit more from the other 99% being satisified.

adrian. chill.

 

[coolzombiee]

Don't mobile players have higher reach? I can't do this, so how is that also fair?

Um no? Mobile players look like they have more reach because they can hit your head into a combo then hit your feet because its the best way for mobile players to combo, because mobile players are on the worst device to play Minecraft, it’s difficult to learn the crosshairs and do other things in mobile

Of course they're not gonna listen to you when the changes you suggest benefit only the likes of you, and not the other 99% of the servers playerbase. They aren't the US government to only do things that benefit the top 1%, and literally nobody else, because unlike the US government, they benefit more from the other 99% being satisified.

Bro what are you even talking about also you need to chill down

 

[𝑷𝑹𝑶 𝑾𝑰𝑵𝑵𝑨𝑨𝑹]

Um no? Mobile players look like they have more reach because they can hit your head into a combo then hit your feet because its the best way for mobile players to combo, because mobile players are on the worst device to play Minecraft, it’s difficult to learn the crosshairs and do other things in mobile

Players who played with touch on a phone always had 1 block more reach, but they recently also extended the reach for controller and kbm, making it almost equal. Although touch still has more reach, it is no longer enough for an entire block.

 

[coolzombiee]

Players who played with touch on a phone always had 1 block more reach, but they recently also extended the reach for controller and kbm, making it almost equal. Although touch still has more reach, it is no longer enough for an entire block.

Oh ok. Mobile is also a more difficult for pvp so I think it’s fair we have had more reach

 

[adrian525pl]

What are some more natural skills? Butterfly clicking is pretty much normal clicking but you use two fingers instead of one. It really is not hard to learn nor is it much different.

Something that you'd learn/develop naturally as you play games normally. This includes mechanical skills, such as aiming or movement, but also just basic ingame behaviors that you learn as you play more games and fight more.

I'm not understanding, are you telling me that you shouldn't be trying to win when you play?

No, I am saying you shouldn't try too hard. Trying to win, to an extent, is perfectly fine, and even necessary for the game to make sense. But there is a certain point where you can go too far with it.

Either way, any decent player doesn't really have to try hard to win the average game of eggwars, their "skill" just makes it kind of easy.

Good, not sure how that's even relevant, I never denied it.

Bro what are you even talking about also you need to chill down

He started complaining about how the mods and devs listen to "noobs" and not "grinders" so I tried my best to explain why that's the case and went way too far with it.

 

[onepiece]

So what?? does that making them better in PvP? make Them better than pc players?

 

[EntPierce]

If you wanted to say you're bad at the game you couldve just said so. Drag clicking is not cheating and anyone can learn it. Same with butterfly or any other clicking method. If you're gonna ban these might aswell ban jitter clicking too cause not everyone can do it. You see not all mice have DC and I understand that, but not all people have the ability to jitter click either. Some people cannot tense their arms correctly in order to jitter so they go to butterfly.
Now what's sad is that i can jitter 17 CPS consistently however I don't know anyone that can non DC butterfly over 15.

PS: If you're angry at getting killed in sweat lobbies with leaderboard players I suggest you just improve your gameplay instead of complaining about it on threads. Learn to play the game or simply leave sweat lobbies if it truly bothers you this much. I never double click. I only jitter, and guess what in sweat lobbies, yes they use drag, yes they make 20 block extensions but so what? You can still beat them if you're good enough.

I see most of the players have gotten to the admins - mods heads. They are making the server purely noob friendly and making any sort of skill irrelevant, this is stupid as PVP is meant to be a skill based gamemode. They already banned so much and changed so much in your favour. Please stop complaining about it. They only look at threads of people like you, but never people that actually grinded that server such as me.

If you die in the game, its YOUR fault. You are not good enough yet to win against that player. It's literally a skill based game, a skill you haven't developed because obviously every time you die you blame it on the other person not realising you're the one that needs improving. Why should the other person be looked down on for being better at the game? I'll never understand your mindset.

Reply if you want.

Respectfully, I do play in those lobbies, and I'm one of the best, but the problem with these lobbies is that the vast majority of people use macro and don't click legally, when they are reported they tell you that they can do it with legal methods, saving themselves from being banned and unless you collect a large amount of clips, they will never be banned and as I mentioned some use scafold, these people also say that why do they complain about them using macro, they see it as something "legal" and that they shouldn't be banned and these people can't be thrown into the void because of this, imagine fighting against people who have a macro of 70-200 who hide it as if it were drag, also for people who do drag, it is illegal to click with tape and it is impossible to know if they use tape or not, for phone players, these clicks considerably increase the skill gap, since one of the main ways for phone players to kill people is on bridges, with the drag Click this is practically impossible, and about the double click, this cannot be considered a click, attached evidence and my youtube channel

EntPierce

Soy un Peruano que sube videos, gracias eso es todo, bye.

www.youtube.com

 

[elderlysnake123]

Something that you'd learn/develop naturally as you play games normally. This includes mechanical skills, such as aiming or movement, but also just basic ingame behaviors that you learn as you play more games and fight more.

So you can learn this pretty normally, I'd argue to say that stuff like hit selecting, timing hits, and reducing aren't very natural to learn.

No, I am saying you shouldn't try too hard. Trying to win, to an extent, is perfectly fine, and even necessary for the game to make sense. But there is a certain point where you can go too far with it.

What is trying too hard? I feel like not trying hard to win just kind of ruins the fun of it, everyone likes a little competition and not trying too hard kind of ruins it, yk?

Good, not sure how that's even relevant, I never denied it.

You are saying that trying too hard is part of the reason that the server is unfun for many players, but for the majority of games, trying too hard isn't the issue, it really is just a skill issue.

 

[adrian525pl]

So you can learn this pretty normally

No. Any form of clicking other than just normally tapping your mouse can't be learned "pretty normally", though I suppose that depends on what you define as "normal".

To me, a skill that can be learned normally is one you develop naturally by just playing the game, NOT watching YT tutorial, NOT specifically training and practicing to become better, just the act of entering a normal match of any given minigame, and just playing it normally.

I'd argue to say that stuff like hit selecting, timing hits, and reducing aren't very natural to learn.

I am inclined to agree, but from experience, to do well in most fights, hit selecting is not entirely neccessary to do well, and most certainly not neccessary to not do badly, and I am not entirely sure what you mean by timing hits. Last I checked, on java 1.9+ its pretty natural because the game kind of tells you that you gotta time your hits to get the most damage.

And on bedrock and java before 1.9 its pretty obvious your hit speed isn't equal to your click speed, because there is a 0.5 second delay between each hit (though I suppose that also varies from server to server, I played a couple games on lifeboat and there the cooldown is much shorter than that).

In other words: you're right, but those skills aren't a necessity to do well.

The only skill necessary to do well which I think is not learned naturally is jump resetting.
There is no way a player naturally will ever figure out that is a thing.

I myself despite nearly 2000 hours on bedrock and hundreds of hours of PS3 Edition and Pocket Edition before I got a PC took an embarassingly long time to find out its a thing and that people who take little KB aren't always anti-KB cheaters. I literally only found like in early 2023, and only took the effort to try and learn it towards the end of that same year, and I sitll find myself forgetting to do it most fights because of how unintuitive it feels to do. Normally you'd think "if I jump, I will take more KB, so I won't do that", but it turns out jumping with the right timing practically nullifies it.

What is trying too hard?

I will explain with an example:

Trying too hard is when instead of buying armor, a sword, a pickaxe and building a basic defense in eggwars you rush people as soon as you can get your hands on enough blocks.

Another example would be a game of lucky islands, when instead of breaking the blocks on your island and the food and blocks block in your inventory you instead rush either the middle or other players as soon as you can, and even select the kit that allows you to do that very thing.


Basically: trying too hard is when, instead of playing for fun, you play with a specific playstyle and strategy that is supposed to ensure the quickest victory at the expense of actually engaging with the game and at the expense of the enjoyment of other players.


Something that would be an example of just being skilled while also not "trying hard" would be when you don't rush people super quickly, don't try super hard to survive when you get close to being eliminated, just play eggwars "nice and slow" so-to-say for a lack of a better description, and with that playstyle still come out on top in most games.

I feel like not trying hard to win just kind of ruins the fun of it

I actually with you on this already to an extent, I literally said that without at least some degree of trying there is no point in playing the game. trying HARD is absolutely problematic, though, because it ruins the game for just about everyone involved except the person trying hard.

You are saying that trying too hard is part of the reason that the server is unfun for many players, but for the majority of games, trying too hard isn't the issue, it really is just a skill issue.

Alright, let me hit you with two example, one is anecdotal, one is less anecdotal, though it depends if you view developer-provided explanations behind updates as anecdotes or proof.


Lets start with the anecdote: so, recently I play a lot of giga blockwars. There, the player base is small enough to come across the same people quite often. Well, there is this one really good player we got, he is so good that a lot of players I see regularly are aware of him and are a bit scared whenever they notice he is not on their team, me myself included.

Yet you don't exactly hear people complaining about a sweat problem in giga blockwars, or really any given blockwars gamemode. This player is really good, he is easily better than most of the other good players I am aware of in that community, and much better than I will ever be.

The reason that happens is because he is not really trying hard, quite the opposite, as good as he is, he often chooses not to try really hard.

On CTF, he only goes for flags if he notices that the opponent is so easy there is no point in dragging the game on or when he notices his teammates aren't skilled enough to grab it themselves. Not to mention he usually only picks easy fights.

Whenever he encounters a more skilled player then, unless he has an advantage in gear, he will often disengage from the fight. And whenever he is close to dying, that's the only time he tries really hard, though he only does it with high level gear, which is the one time trying hard is understandable as the recent blockwars updates made that gear very painful and time consuming to obtain.

and on bridges he tries so little he often feels very unthreatening despite his undeniable skill.


I also don't see any players from that group I tend to encounter a lot complaining about him, only ocassionally suggesting the other good players on their team to perhaps try to take him down, but that's less a complaint about his skill, and more so a bunch of players trying to neutralise a threat.



Tl;dr: in blockwars, despite there being plenty of good players, some being so good that its scaring and worrying some of the others, noone complains about skilled players. I am yet to see a forums post saying that block wars has a problem with the game being too difficult or there being too many tryhards.





Now onto the less anecdotal example: eggwars season 2


Eggwars season 2 included changes that made the game more friendly to new players and lead to a lot of grinders quitting. Grinders being the type of player that rushes everyone as fast as possible in order to secure a win. It did so by nerfing their tactics a lot, and allowing players to defend their base easier, massively increasing the duration of a game and forcing those grinders to actually interact with the game more in order to secure a win.

Now noticed how its grinders specifically that are the problem. You see: the problem wasn't bad players being beaten by better ones itself that lead to those changes. It was rather the fact those better players were playing in ways that didn't allow the worse players to really play the game and interact with it. Basically: grinding, trying to win as fast as possible, as many times as possible, that's what ultimately lead to eggwars season 2 being introduced with changes to nerf that.

By nerfing the quick rushes and the ability to speed-run the game, the player base grew significantly while the skill based parts of the game (you know, the PvP part?) remained mostly unaffected and is still requires skill. Not to mention other skilled players fairly quickly taking the spot that the grinders so kindly left by quitting eggwars.

Yet, the only time we saw significant amounts of players leave eggwars was when bedwars introduced.

Worse players, despite still not doing super well at eggwars and still encountering tons of skilled players in that game chose to stay around, because the game was more fun now that the risk of dying in the first 2 minutes was reduced and the ability to make yourself survive longer was made easier.

Their chances of winning the game themselves didn't even grow, a bad player is still gonna lose most of the time, no matter the amount of changes done to the game, the only thing that did change was the amount of time good players needed to dedicate per game to grab those wins. Worse players, despite still being beaten most of the time, still enjoyed the game to the point of where a lot of them started playing on the server and a lot them stood around.


You see: players don't care as much if they are bad at the game if they get to have fun. Its how giga blockwars works. Its how eggwars season 2 worked, and how it succeeded.

Video games, even competitive ones, are a form of entertainment. And despite the existence of highly competitive players, most players are gonna play for that entertainment. And if the game provides... well, who cares if you lose if you can still have a fun time?




So in conclusion: no, the problem aren't the skilled players, its the players that are trying too hard, with players that are skilled AND trying too hard ruining games most.

Its not a skill issue, never has been, and I doubt it ever will be.

 

[-_ghost28_-]

Hello!

What is Drag Clicking / Double Clicking?

Drag clicking is your type of click which consists of dragging your finger on the mouse to make a certain number of clicks, double clicking is when you click once, it is registered as 2 or more clicks.

For that reason, players can achieve a higher number of clicks per second.

The Issue

Cubecraft has long allowed players to use drag click and double click, however, drag click cannot be used with tape as it is considered a "physical modification", taking this into account, it could be said that double clicking is also a physical modification, since some players modify their mouse / break it, in order to use double click, also it is impossible to know if someone drags with or without tape, there are also some who drag with tape residue and this is practically undetectable.

One of the main arguments when these types of clicks were allowed was that Cubecraft had a good matchmaking, where it matched you with people on your platform for example: Computer / Console / Phone, but this is not true, with the drop in Cubecraft players, it usually matches you with whoever, especially in larger game modes like Squads / Mega / Blockwars, something which since these clicks were allowed, makes Console and Phone players have a big disadvantage over PC players, considering that also players of Console and phone represent the largest percentage of players that play the server, making there be a giant skill gap between the players of the server, that being said, I will continue to the next problem, since these type of clicks were admitted, a large percentage of players took advantage to use "macro", since it is difficult to know if they use legal or illegal methods, having to gather a lot of evidence so that these players can be sanctioned, this problem happens mainly in Eggwars and Skywars, it could be said that more than 90% of the players that put many blocks do it with macro of 70-200 cps, cubecraft is supposed to have a cps limiter, but it seems that this does not exist, since you can notice the difference between someone that uses macro of 30 to someone that uses macro of 200 or more, other people even use "Scaffold", which makes them put blocks below them automatically when they are going to fall into the void, something which shows that they use the rule to do illegal actions something which is supposed to It is not the point, also, in these issues we cannot argue with Java servers like Hypixel since they do not have Console and Phone players that generate such a large skill gap, some say that these clicks should be legal because they are practically clicks like the JitterClick or the Butterfly click, in the case of the double click, no, the double click is based on the fact that for each click two or more clicks are detected, something which does not happen in the jitter, with respect to the drag, this one here can be considered a click, but as I already mentioned, it is impossible to know if it is used or not with tape and even worse if it is used with tape residue and finally I know that several players in the past have been banned for using double click accidentally with their mouse, so I will give the following solutions.​

The Solution

The solutions to this problem are varied, first let me clarify something, if double click / drag click were to be banned, players who accidentally place a certain amount of blocks that do not affect the game, should not be penalized, since in the past certain people have been penalized for very short clicks where they accidentally place 2-6 blocks with double clicks, now I will continue, first and most effective, ban drag and double click on the entire server, this would be like going back in time and it would be the most effective, combining it with a cps limiter that DOES WORK, second, just add a cps limiter that DOES WORK, limiting the cps of all players to 20-30 cps at most, this would help, but it would not be as effective as the first method.


Thanks.​

I completely agree with you right there! I had faced a lot of drag clickers in the past which at the time I was not aware of it as a thing in Bedrock Edition. My friend and I tried to knock off that one guy to the void back in egg wars duos and he somehow manages to avoid falling then killed the both of us. Fighting against individuals who drag clicks makes it nearly impossible to beat unless you use methods such as getting stacked or having to team up against one. I recently defeated players who drag clicks but didn't know what they were doing. Having the chance to modify a mouse to gain an unfair advantage is considered as cheating. People who plays on console and mobile will find it too difficult to beat players who drag clicks. Therefore, having the cps limited to 10-12 should be added into Cubecraft.

 

[elderlysnake123]

. Any form of clicking other than just normally tapping your mouse can't be learned "pretty normally"

So let me ask you, if someone wanted to click fast for fun and had no way of learning from another person, do you not think that they wouldn't try butterfly clicking? I've watched a lot of people try to click fast by using two fingers and without any knowledge of butterflyclicking. To me, it seems like something you would learn as you play the game.

NOT specifically training and practicing to become better

Okay but you can play to get better at this, when I was first learning how to butterfly click, I just played to figure it out, same with different mechanics.

hit selecting is not entirely neccessary to do well

Although it isn't necessary, hit selecting is something that a large amount of top players do in pvp. From what ive seen, its really is a skill that you should know, especially for starting combos.

you're right, but those skills aren't a necessity to do well.

In bedrock, timing hits is almost mandatory if you want to hold a combo for a period of time, especially with the current kb.

The only skill necessary to do well which I think is not learned naturally is jump resetting.
There is no way a player naturally will ever figure out that is a thing.

I disagree with this, out of the three things I listed, this is the only one that really isn't as important. With the current kb, reducing has become harder to do and less effective, although it has some great uses, the other two are pretty much more important in cubecrafts pvp. But yea, most players will almost never figure that out naturally.

Trying too hard is when instead of buying armor, a sword, a pickaxe and building a basic defense in eggwars you rush people as soon as you can get your hands on enough blocks.

Well could this not just be considered a strategy? It is much faster if you can do it properly and it also takes a bit of skill. Really, building a defense is unnecessary in normal eggwars games. You are saying that trying to make games go by faster is trying too hard, but you are also saying that you should just let yourself die. I don't think eggwars would be very fun if every single player played the exact same way just to maybe make it more fun for some people.

trying HARD is absolutely problematic, though, because it ruins the game for just about everyone involved except the person trying hard.

Im sorry but do you truly believe that the game would be more fun if you just allowed yourself to die in a slightly bad situation. I believe that both parties like the challenge and it gives it some competition, no competitions means no fun for a fairly large amount of people.

Tl;dr: in blockwars, despite there being plenty of good players, some being so good that its scaring and worrying some of the others, noone complains about skilled players. I am yet to see a forums post saying that block wars has a problem with the game being too difficult or there being too many tryhards.

Imma be honest, I'm not really sure on how to respond to these examples. You are saying that this blockwars player isn't a problem because they don't really try. But, you are also talking about a gamemode which has very little skilled players coming to it. It also is usually played in normal so CPS can't be much of an issue which is usually the cause of complaints.
In eggwars, the games are usually much more competitive. A lot more "skilled" players come to this gamemode and a lot more people "try too hard". As of now, it is incredibly hard to kill someone because of this. If drag clicking was disallowed, this would really help solve the issue. As for people rushing, that is just apart of the game. People do it in everything and I don't think it should be looked down upon. Its just that for eggwars, the average player just isn't that good and it allows very average players to rush pretty easily. And although the update did make rushing slower, the issue of cps has never been bigger. I just don't think that a portion of the issue is that people are trying too hard, its that people are able to get away with being unvoidable.
(once again, im playing eggwars right now and i dont think this is the best response)

 

[cubelegit7621]

get gud and stop criyng lol

 

[adrian525pl]

So let me ask you, if someone wanted to click fast for fun and had no way of learning from another person, do you not think that they wouldn't try butterfly clicking?

But how would you even come to the need of clicking faster?

Butterfly clicking itself can be learned "naturally", but the way you'd come to the conclusion of ever wanting to learn it isn't natural given how there aren't that many times ingame where clicking this fast feels necessary.

Although it isn't necessary, hit selecting is something that a large amount of top players do in pvp. From what ive seen, its really is a skill that you should know, especially for starting combos.

From what I've seen, you can win most fights without it if you are good at other things.

In bedrock, timing hits is almost mandatory if you want to hold a combo for a period of time, especially with the current kb.

Fair enough.

With the current kb, reducing has become harder to do and less effective,

While I don't disagree with this, its still far more effective and far more necessary than you seem to think.

Well could this not just be considered a strategy? It is much faster if you can do it properly and it also takes a bit of skill.

Most of the speed of this relies on resource generation speed, not skill.

Really, building a defense is unnecessary in normal eggwars games.

Its only unnecessary because the average player in this game chooses not to or is too bad to exploit you not building one. If they were, building a defence would be no.1 on any somewhat decent players to do list in an eggwars game.

You are saying that trying to make games go by faster is trying too hard, but you are also saying that you should just let yourself die.

I never said you should just let yourself die, I am saying there is a point in trying to survive that it can be considered trying too hard.

I believe that both parties like the challenge and it gives it some competition, no competitions means no fun for a fairly large amount of people.

Mhm, both parties like it, that's why eggwars season 2 practically eliminated one of these parties, leading for the others player numbers to massively increase.


No, only party likes the "challenge", and even they don't like actual challenge, they like grinding easy wins in short periods of time. Its the entire reason why so many quit when eggwars season 2 was added.

Don't get me wrong here: competition is fun, TO A DEGREE. Again: there is difference between trying and trying too hard, and on a similar note, there is a difference between healthy competition that most people enjoy and competition that actually ruins the fun of most players.

I don't think eggwars would be very fun if every single player played the exact same way just to maybe make it more fun for some people.

Woah, that's a bit of a stretch. The way of playing the game I described as "normal" is just one way of playing the game without trying too hard. I have no issue with anyone playing how they want for as long as the way they're playing doesn't cross that line of tryharding.

You are saying that this blockwars player isn't a problem because they don't really try. But, you are also talking about a gamemode which has very little skilled players coming to it.

Very little? For normal blockwars I totally agree, but in giga blockwars its hard not to encounter several decent players if you play around times of peak server activity. Even if it is admittedly just a select group of really active players.

As for people rushing, that is just apart of the game. People do it in everything and I don't think it should be looked down upon.

They absolutely should if said rushing is past the line of trying too hard.


Early rushing achieves nothing other than ruining some poor persons fun, not to mention not being effective against any player who has the slightest Idea of how the game works.

And although the update did make rushing slower, the issue of cps has never been bigger. I just don't think that a portion of the issue is that people are trying too hard, its that people are able to get away with being unvoidable.
(once again, im playing eggwars right now and i dont think this is the best response)

I agree with CPS being more problematic than ever. Trying hard is a problem in this simply because most fast clicking methods and the idea to click this fast do require a level of trying that goes far above the norm.

It is still only a part of the problem and the primary focus should still remain on dealing with the CPS problem, regardless who it is caused by and how.

 

[elderlysnake123]

But how would you even come to the need of clicking faster?

People try to click fast in people, and the faster the better, yk?

From what I've seen, you can win most fights without it if you are good at other things.

Yea sure you can win most fights, but im talking about fights with other good players, it isnt really important against the average player.

While I don't disagree with this, its still far more effective and far more necessary than you seem to think.

As of now, I believe that reducing is the most overrated thing, people think its like a cheat code to being good at the game when it really isn't, especially a normal jump reset.

Most of the speed of this relies on resource generation speed, not skill.

Are you telling me that someone who is horrible at the game can still be fast because of gens?

Its only unnecessary because the average player in this game chooses not to or is too bad to exploit you not building one. If they were, building a defence would be no.1 on any somewhat decent players to do list in an eggwars game.

Well even then, your egg really isnt as important as it used to be. With the current pics and the fact that tnt does a million blocks of kb, it isn't very hard to get.

I never said you should just let yourself die, I am saying there is a point in trying to survive that it can be considered trying too hard.

I believe that you should fight until your death, it wouldn't be very fun if you just gave up.

there is a difference between healthy competition that most people enjoy and competition that actually ruins the fun of most players.

well i believe that most players arent really affected by the competition that ruins the fun. They will usually die pretty fast and not have to deal with any of the actual struggles. Also, a lot of stuff was changed with season two that just kinda sucks, yea the games are slower, but they can be dragged out so much more now.

I have no issue with anyone playing how they want for as long as the way they're playing doesn't cross that line of tryharding.

Either way, i think "tryharding" should be a thing, and thats what makes competitive play fun. I don't think "tryharding" affects the majority of players besides getting insta rushed(which i dont consider "tryharding"

Very little? For normal blockwars I totally agree, but in giga blockwars its hard not to encounter several decent players if you play around times of peak server activity. Even if it is admittedly just a select group of really active players.

Much less competitive players play it compared to other gamemodes.

Early rushing achieves nothing other than ruining some poor persons fun, not to mention not being effective against any player who has the slightest Idea of how the game works.

Okay well that means that the people it works on do not have the slightest idea of how the game works, making it a skill issue, yk? It also just helps games go by faster. I'd hate to spend 20 minutes in a game getting stacked just to get combo'd off by someone much better than me.

It is still only a part of the problem and the primary focus should still remain on dealing with the CPS problem, regardless who it is caused by and how.

Yea, if people were voidable, people would have a much harder time surviving, alot of players are just CPS carried.