Bedrock I would like to see the KB adjusted to match KB Test V2

[SlinkyGnu05604]

Before you post your feedback about this topic, hear me out on what I have to say about it.

I would like to see CubeCraft adjust the knockback to be the same as in Knockback Test V2. But before I get into why I believe they should do that, let me tell you the background information about CubeCraft in the past 3 years.

Background information:

When CubeCraft Bedrock released on April 25 2018, the server had the Java style KB system we all grew up with.

We had it all the way until the beginning of 2021 when CubeCraft changed the KB entirely by adding vertical KB, which was a controversial topic that was biased towards the people who enjoyed vertical KB and not the ones who doesn’t enjoy it.

That happened when people complained about the old KB being inconsistent (myself included) as we wanted CubeCraft to fix the kb inconsistency between hits instead of randomizing the knockback.

The problems with the current knockback:

CubeCraft's current knockback system is still inconsistent but its far worse than what it used to be.

- Some people barely take knockback in fights and it is much harder for the opposing player to win fights because they can do more knockback to them which is unfair for the opposing player since they cannot turn the fight around, causing them to not enjoy the game.

- The game is no longer favoring skill, it favors ping since a low ping player can get more hits to the enemy or even the high ping player if skilled enough will be able to beat anyone due to their distance server side.

- PvP techniques that require skill such as strafing is rarely used since vertical kb exists.

- It is harder to beat teams of 2 or more people because when they all attack you at once, they will be out of your hit range due to your position, which makes it hard to fight back.

- OG players have quit because of this change, and Hive players started playing CubeCraft, making the community toxic because they brought their toxicity with them.

- Games are slower paced now.

- More players are using autoclickers (hard to prove due to no air hit sounds)

- Pro CubeCrafters have turned to average players

- According to this thread, only 10 people out of 27 wanted the vertical knockback to be added. The rest don’t, yet CubeCraft adds it anyways.

- Last but not least, no featured server has original kb anymore as almost all servers have vertical kb. I wish to see at least one server prioritize horizontal kb like Java and Legacy Console editions


Solution:

Adjust the kb system to prioritize horizontal kb and not vertical kb (In other words, change the values in the knockback code to match knockback test V2). There are videos below showing what is knockback test V2 looks like incase you forgot or have not seen it before.

Effects:

By fixing the problems mentioned above, the games will be much more fun and replayable for most players who don't like vertical kb and the kb will be original again.

OG players will return.

Games will be faster paced again.

All players will have the chance in every fight, rather than the good player all the time, which can allow the losing player to have a chance to turn the fight around and win.

Toxicity might be lowered because players who enjoy vertical kb will be forced to adapt to the horizontal focused knockback or play on a different server, which will lower chat reports for toxicity.

Teams will be easier to kill as strategies like strafing can be used effectively against them since you won’t be sent flying when you get attacked at the same time by different players.

TLDR:

CubeCraft should consider changing the knockback back to how it was in Knockback Test V2 since the disadvantages of the current knockback overweighs the advantages. Plus, Knockback Test V2 is the consistent version of the old KB which was well received by the community, as evidenced here.

FAQs:

1) “You are not used to the knockback. Get used to it and you will like it.”
- I’m used to the knockback but I don’t like it. Some people agree with me on that one.

Clips of Knockback Test V2:

Clip 1
Clip 2
Clip 3

 

[Gamenight888]

Just for anyone else reading this, actually *read* the post before simply saying “Oh no stick with kb now” because the kb that is being recommended is NOT the exact old kb, rather a mix of both old and new kb.

 

[solarxysm]

in my opinion, i agree because it’s very annoying to defend yourself from a team of 3 especially when the knockback system sends you in every direction. you should be able to defend yourself even with an 80ms difference in ping because as you said, the knockback favours high ping not skill which i find very unfair because i play in na servers(not by choice im placed there by the matchmaking system which is something else i find annoying)and i am in excess of 120ms. its kind of unfair because the people who are in america will obviously have better ping as opposed to somebody in england when it comes to server location

+1

 

[happyslanto]

I agree with adjusting the knockback, especially when fighting teams. I find it hard to kill them because of the knockback, it stops me from being able to strafe them.

 

[RelatedNoobs]

Hi. Personally, I REALLY like the knockback system we have now. The knockback is just right. It is not too vertical (like Hive) and not too horizontal (like some inconsistent 1.8.9 servers). I will be going over some arguments you've made against the knockback, because some things you have said are outright wrong or don't make much sense.

CubeCraft's current knockback system is still inconsistent but its far worse than what it used to be.

I am not sure what you mean by worse than it used to be? If you are talking about the old knockback, I wouldn't be able to take this seriously. The old knockback was literally the definition of inconsistent. Fights were extremely luck-based and no skill was ever involved in being good at the knockback. I used to be considered a top 20 player on old knockback, and all I knew how to do back then was click 11 cps and press the W key.

If you are talking about the knockback tests version 1 and 2, it may be a bit clearer. But those knockback tests were only around for a few weeks correct? I don't know if that would even be enough time to consider the knockback "clean and consistent".

As for calling the knockback we currently have now "inconsistent", I think this is true only to a certain extent. The only inconsistency I find regularly with Cubecraft's knockback is the amount of knockback a player takes due to bad server connection. it is often much harder to fight players with higher or much lower ping than you, but this is pretty much the case in any video game, which makes me believe it is out of Cubecraft's control. Besides, I don't feel that the knockback test V2 would be able to fix this issue.

- Some people barely take knockback in fights and it is much harder for the opposing player to win fights because they can do more knockback to them which is unfair for the opposing player since they cannot turn the fight around, causing them to not enjoy the game.

Players taking varying knockback is due to one of two things. Either 1. They are using knockback reduction techniques such as w tapping or jump resetting, or 2. They have a very good or very bad connection to Cubecraft. This is the case in ANY Minecraft server though. This is not Cubecraft's fault in any way, and changing the knockback to a different version is NOT going to change anything.

If players lose the fights because they cannot turn the fight around then that's probably simply because the player is outmatched. This has nothing to do with this knockback. Once again, this happens in any Minecraft server. It is simple math really. If someone is better than someone else, they are most likely going to win the fight.

The game is no longer favoring skill, it favors ping since a low ping player can get more hits to the enemy or even the high ping player if skilled enough will be able to beat anyone due to their distance server side.

This statement I can agree with to an extent, but I once again feel that changing the knockback is not going to make any difference at all. If we were to go back to test version 2 - which is a heavy horizontal-based knockback, I think "ping reach" would be even more noticeable and more common.

PvP techniques that require skill such as strafing is rarely used since vertical kb exists.

This statement is outright wrong. I can guarantee you the top players of Cubecraft are not considered good simply because they are "good at throwing people in the air". This knockback takes PvP techniques into account such as strafing, w tapping, s tapping, jump resetting, and hit selecting to name a few. Saying this knockback requires no skill is an outright lie. Ask someone like Lightschips or xClutchingg to 1v1 and you will see the major skill and technique required to be at their level.

To continue, I feel as though changing the knockback to version 2 would once again not change anything at all. It is just a version with less vertical knockback and more horizontal knockback. The PvP techniques will still be there, but the use of each technique will vary and some will then be used more commonly than others.

It is harder to beat teams of 2 or more people because when they all attack you at once, they will be out of your hit range due to your position, which makes it hard to fight back.

Looking back I feel as though the old Cubecraft knockback really tainted how hard it actually is to fight two people. Before the knockback changes, you could easily take on 1v2 fights and win because the knockback was so random, that you could stick like a magnet to the floor. Now though, skill is actually required to take on fights, and you no longer stick like a magnet to the floor, making it really easy to get thrown into the air and in a combo by two people - but that is how it's SUPPOSED to be. If you were to log onto any other network such as Hive or Hypixel and attempt a 2v1, I can guarantee you will probably lose. Fair 2v1s are not meant to be won by the smaller party.

OG players have quit because of this change, and Hive players started playing CubeCraft, making the community toxic because they brought their toxicity with them.

I personally don't really see many "Hive mains" in the PvP community. There is only a handful really, and I don't think it's reasonable (or nice) to blame the toxicity on them. The toxicity more likely originates from the fact that the server and community have grown exponentially larger in the past year or two because the server's player counts have gotten higher and more popular. More people = bigger community. A bigger community = more likely to have toxic players.

Again, knockback version 2 test is not going to fix this in the slightest.

Games are slower paced now.

I have not a clue where you got this information from? Through all my gameplay of EggWars and Skywars, the games seem to be much MUCH faster now. Skywars games are often much quicker because players are actually fighting each other. The same thing can be said about EggWars. Players are getting used to rushing now and eggs are being broken significantly faster than when I first started playing. On top of this, the speed-running community is getting more and more efficient, finding better ways to get the best time possible.

Pro CubeCrafters have turned to average players

The "pros" that have turned average haven't turned average because of the knockback, it is because they weren't willing to learn the new knockback. When the knockback first changed, almost everyone was bad at it because no one was used to it. Now though, the players that were willing to make the change and actually put effort into the game are considered pros.

Last but not least, no featured server has original kb anymore as almost all servers have vertical kb. I wish to see at least one server prioritize horizontal kb like Java and Legacy Console editions

No featured server has original kb because the community has found a knockback that is popular and everyone enjoys.

Also, the old Cubecraft knockback didn't prioritize horizontal knockback, it pretty much didn't prioritize anything at all because of how much of a mess it was. The inconsistency still gives me PTSD to this day.

In the end, I personally do not want yet another massive knockback change. Players have finally settled and enjoy the current knockback. It is a very skillful knockback that is easy to get used to after some time and is relatively fair for everyone. Adding the version 2 knockback would just make players have to re-learn how to play and in the end, won't fix almost any problems you stated in this thread.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but I just want to get my honest opinion across, Thanks for making this suggestion.

 

[SoundToTheThirdPower]

Yeah tbh knockback has been broken for so long its actually caused a lot of people to quit. its legit to the point where i, can legit take 0 knockback just by holding the jump button in vr, can break a combo just by holding w (unless im being misplaced on) and its to the point where you cant tell if someone is using velocity or just has garbage connection, its like i dont understand how other featured servers have no issue with it and one in perticular is the same size (sometimes smaller sometimes bigger) has no issue with misplace (AT ALL) look, i love this server. i just want to see it become fair for all within reason. there is no excuse for specific players to take less knockback than others. examples:

In this bottom one i was misplacing, i cant tell how many blocks but you can tell because im almost standing still and hes looking straight at me and no hits were registering but mine. (Just to make sure. I was misplacing via serverside not cheats)

and last example:

No hate towards anyone and i dont mean to offend anyone., i just want to put my two cents. do i know how to run a giant server? no, im basing everything i know off of what ive seen, if i get any of this wrong please tell me so i can hopefully either A: understand the situation more B: correct myself

Lets make a change for the people who have these issues.

 

[That1Turtle2]

Hi. Personally, I REALLY like the knockback system we have now. The knockback is just right. It is not too vertical (like Hive) and not too horizontal (like some inconsistent 1.8.9 servers). I will be going over some arguments you've made against the knockback, because some things you have said are outright wrong or don't make much sense.


I am not sure what you mean by worse than it used to be? If you are talking about the old knockback, I wouldn't be able to take this seriously. The old knockback was literally the definition of inconsistent. Fights were extremely luck-based and no skill was ever involved in being good at the knockback. I used to be considered a top 20 player on old knockback, and all I knew how to do back then was click 11 cps and press the W key.

If you are talking about the knockback tests version 1 and 2, it may be a bit clearer. But those knockback tests were only around for a few weeks correct? I don't know if that would even be enough time to consider the knockback "clean and consistent".

As for calling the knockback we currently have now "inconsistent", I think this is true only to a certain extent. The only inconsistency I find regularly with Cubecraft's knockback is the amount of knockback a player takes due to bad server connection. it is often much harder to fight players with higher or much lower ping than you, but this is pretty much the case in any video game, which makes me believe it is out of Cubecraft's control. Besides, I don't feel that the knockback test V2 would be able to fix this issue.



Players taking varying knockback is due to one of two things. Either 1. They are using knockback reduction techniques such as w tapping or jump resetting, or 2. They have a very good or very bad connection to Cubecraft. This is the case in ANY Minecraft server though. This is not Cubecraft's fault in any way, and changing the knockback to a different version is NOT going to change anything.

If players lose the fights because they cannot turn the fight around then that's probably simply because the player is outmatched. This has nothing to do with this knockback. Once again, this happens in any Minecraft server. It is simple math really. If someone is better than someone else, they are most likely going to win the fight.



This statement I can agree with to an extent, but I once again feel that changing the knockback is not going to make any difference at all. If we were to go back to test version 2 - which is a heavy horizontal-based knockback, I think "ping reach" would be even more noticeable and more common.



This statement is outright wrong. I can guarantee you the top players of Cubecraft are not considered good simply because they are "good at throwing people in the air". This knockback takes PvP techniques into account such as strafing, w tapping, s tapping, jump resetting, and hit selecting to name a few. Saying this knockback requires no skill is an outright lie. Ask someone like Lightschips or xClutchingg to 1v1 and you will see the major skill and technique required to be at their level.

To continue, I feel as though changing the knockback to version 2 would once again not change anything at all. It is just a version with less vertical knockback and more horizontal knockback. The PvP techniques will still be there, but the use of each technique will vary and some will then be used more commonly than others.



Looking back I feel as though the old Cubecraft knockback really tainted how hard it actually is to fight two people. Before the knockback changes, you could easily take on 1v2 fights and win because the knockback was so random, that you could stick like a magnet to the floor. Now though, skill is actually required to take on fights, and you no longer stick like a magnet to the floor, making it really easy to get thrown into the air and in a combo by two people - but that is how it's SUPPOSED to be. If you were to log onto any other network such as Hive or Hypixel and attempt a 2v1, I can guarantee you will probably lose. Fair 2v1s are not meant to be won by the smaller party.



I personally don't really see many "Hive mains" in the PvP community. There is only a handful really, and I don't think it's reasonable (or nice) to blame the toxicity on them. The toxicity more likely originates from the fact that the server and community have grown exponentially larger in the past year or two because the server's player counts have gotten higher and more popular. More people = bigger community. A bigger community = more likely to have toxic players.

Again, knockback version 2 test is not going to fix this in the slightest.



I have not a clue where you got this information from? Through all my gameplay of EggWars and Skywars, the games seem to be much MUCH faster now. Skywars games are often much quicker because players are actually fighting each other. The same thing can be said about EggWars. Players are getting used to rushing now and eggs are being broken significantly faster than when I first started playing. On top of this, the speed-running community is getting more and more efficient, finding better ways to get the best time possible.



The "pros" that have turned average haven't turned average because of the knockback, it is because they weren't willing to learn the new knockback. When the knockback first changed, almost everyone was bad at it because no one was used to it. Now though, the players that were willing to make the change and actually put effort into the game are considered pros.



No featured server has original kb because the community has found a knockback that is popular and everyone enjoys.

Also, the old Cubecraft knockback didn't prioritize horizontal knockback, it pretty much didn't prioritize anything at all because of how much of a mess it was. The inconsistency still gives me PTSD to this day.

In the end, I personally do not want yet another massive knockback change. Players have finally settled and enjoy the current knockback. It is a very skillful knockback that is easy to get used to after some time and is relatively fair for everyone. Adding the version 2 knockback would just make players have to re-learn how to play and in the end, won't fix almost any problems you stated in this thread.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but I just want to get my honest opinion across, Thanks for making this suggestion.

said everything i was thinking. great post

 

[xcanadiaa]

That’s like saying you can survive in a country where you cannot speak their language, which I guess you can, but if you want to live a normal life there, in other words, enjoy the game, I highly recommend learning the guts of its current PvP. PvP is more than just strafing and aim, think about it.

 

[SoundToTheThirdPower]

How can you say that when even when you arent being comboed misplace is still a thing. the knockback in its current state is fine but the misplace is such an issue its actually disgusting, only two other featured servers have this issue and those are the lower budget ones. @JMcStarrison

 

[xcanadiaa]

OG players have quit because of this change, and Hive players started playing CubeCraft, making the community toxic because they brought their toxicity with them.

I don’t mean to come out as rude (and I already know RelatedNoobs said something about this statement), so I just want to back him up here. I’m sorry, but it wasn’t really nice of you to blame the Hive players for “making the CubeCraft community toxic.” Mate, every server has toxicity, and sadly we cannot do anything to erase that. Personally, I cannot blame the Hive players for that. The main reason as to why some Hive players are toxic is because of how large and competitive their community is. It’s usually the competitiveness and the server count that serves as the formula for toxicity. CubeCraft has been rising its toxicity levels even before the upward knockback, and you cannot just blame that on Hive players. If I were to blame someone, blame the CubeCraft community (or the knockback if you prefer) for their toxicity. CubeCraft’s toxic in its own ways, and it isn’t triggered by the Hive, as they have barely nothing to do with our toxicity issues. Blame the knockback if you want, just not the Hive players. In fact, I think blaming them could make them toxic towards us, which is not what we all wish for.

Just my two cents, but I could be wrong. And if you think I am wrong, hear me out.

 

[Alexp192]

Forwarded!

 

[solarxysm]

Forwarded!

YESSS ALEXA

 

[Younisco]

Hey, thanks for the suggestion!

So, for some backstory, when comparing to the knockback before the KB test, I believe we can all agree that it was abysmal, and the place it's at is leaps and bounds ahead.

When conducting the KB test, we knew going into it that not everyone will be happy with the outcome of it. It's in the same standing of us creating updates for any gamemode, not everyone will enjoy it unfortunately.

Comparing some numbers, values such as horizontal knockback at the moment closer resemble the first iteration of the KB test - which opted a less-horizontal-more-vertical approach. The vertical knockback also closer resembles the first iteration of the KB, albeit by very very small units.

The reason we wanted to go closer to the first KB test was that more people gave feedback on it, and we felt more comfortable opting for that approach. The reason we shifted it a bit towards the second KB test - a more-horizontal-less-vertical test, was because we had issues with phone users being juggled by PC or console players. Though this was partly remedied by the platform based matchmaking that was implemented, it didn't remove the issue entirely. Removing some vertical knockback meant that these users were able to escape such combos.

Tackling a few of your points:

By fixing the problems mentioned above, the games will be much more fun and replayable for most players who don't like vertical kb and the kb will be original again.

According to who?

Toxicity might be lowered because players who enjoy vertical kb will be forced to adapt to the horizontal focused knockback or play on a different server, which will lower chat reports for toxicity.

Can't you say the same about us changing the knockback and forcing essentially millions of our returning players to readjust again?

can legit take 0 knockback just by holding the jump button in vr

This sounds more like a bug ;P

We understand that there are some edge cases with the knockback not being perfect, but we would need for this to be reported to us so that we can look into remedying them. It's not a case of "revert everything its all broken" unfortunately.

 

[joshplaysgames1]

This statement is outright wrong. I can guarantee you the top players of Cubecraft are not considered good simply because they are "good at throwing people in the air". This knockback takes PvP techniques into account such as strafing, w tapping, s tapping, jump resetting, and hit selecting to name a few. Saying this knockback requires no skill is an outright lie. Ask someone like Lightschips or xClutchingg to 1v1 and you will see the major skill and technique required to be at their level.

clout denied

 

[SlinkyGnu05604]

The reason we wanted to go closer to the first KB test was that more people gave feedback on it

I see, but I'm curious to why not the second since more people wanted it than the first (99 people enjoyed the first test and 117 enjoyed the second test)

According to who?

As a veteran Minecrafter, I played all servers since Minecraft Bedrock 1.2 came out. Every server had original knockback mechanics, up until mid to late 2020 when vertical knockback was starting to become popular.

As for the games being fun and replayable, before I created this suggestion post. I found 4 livestreams showing Knockback Test V2. Took me a while to find good videos showing them. I got 3 clips from those streams and showed them to some people and I asked for their opinions on it. The opinions were mixed, but the majority of the people I showed the clips to would like to see it in game, speaking of which, I would like to see a beta test of it. Probably 2-4 weeks test for feedback since that test only lasted 9 days compared to the first one, which lasted exactly 3 weeks.

Can't you say the same about us changing the knockback and forcing essentially millions of our returning players to readjust again?

What you said is true, it is why I mentioned above that I would like to see an extended knockback test for Knockback Test V2, since 9 days was not too long compared to 3 weeks.


Thanks for your input on the situation though.

 

[AlrGoodbye]

My personal opinion is similar to RelatedNoobs, the new KB just takes time to get use to. I find it much easier to fight people now than when we still had the old KB. When we had the old KB it was more luck based in a way and pretty much anyone could win a 1v1 if you had a high CPS. Now it’s more strategy and skill to win. Also every community has toxicity you can’t just blame the hive players for making the server more toxic, with the servers fast pace of growth the server is bound to have more toxic players in the community it’s just something you have to live with. Going back to the old KB would not lower the toxicity that is simply not true. Anyways have a good day - Aspire Astro

 

[solarxysm]

i think the knockback right now is really strange, sometimes i get hit at different knockbacks by the same person(im used to it but i domt like it in particular)

 

[Landon AWESOME9]

Personally I liked the 2020 og kb the best of all the kb systems, mostly because thats when I played cubecraft the most. However, many of the problems with that kb translated directly to the original kb tests, and its even worse now. Kb has always been inconsistent, but on og kb it was predictable that players just wouldn't take kb. Because of the whole ping reach and cps thing it is much harder to do a 1v2 against players who know what they're doing. I'm gonna keep this short but there are other reasons.

 

[That1Turtle2]

Hey, thanks for the suggestion!

So, for some backstory, when comparing to the knockback before the KB test, I believe we can all agree that it was abysmal, and the place it's at is leaps and bounds ahead.

When conducting the KB test, we knew going into it that not everyone will be happy with the outcome of it. It's in the same standing of us creating updates for any gamemode, not everyone will enjoy it unfortunately.

Comparing some numbers, values such as horizontal knockback at the moment closer resemble the first iteration of the KB test - which opted a less-horizontal-more-vertical approach. The vertical knockback also closer resembles the first iteration of the KB, albeit by very very small units.

The reason we wanted to go closer to the first KB test was that more people gave feedback on it, and we felt more comfortable opting for that approach. The reason we shifted it a bit towards the second KB test - a more-horizontal-less-vertical test, was because we had issues with phone users being juggled by PC or console players. Though this was partly remedied by the platform based matchmaking that was implemented, it didn't remove the issue entirely. Removing some vertical knockback meant that these users were able to escape such combos.

Tackling a few of your points:

According to who?

Can't you say the same about us changing the knockback and forcing essentially millions of our returning players to readjust again?

This sounds more like a bug ;P

We understand that there are some edge cases with the knockback not being perfect, but we would need for this to be reported to us so that we can look into remedying them. It's not a case of "revert everything its all broken" unfortunately.

VOUCH!!! VOUCH!!