Java Lets talk about 1.8

[Xicotet]

Dear cubecraft,
I would like to talk about the return of certain 1.8 gamemodes which the whole community is still waiting for, I have read different posts saying that version 1.8 started to gradually decrease the amount of players as it can happen in any version, even in 1.12, all these months serve as a reference of the decline of 1.12, which you guys thought was going to have an incredible potential and look where it is now, with less player base than an average server of 1.8.

The 1.8 still has thousands and thousands players scattered across different servers, most of which are focused on PVP environments. The 1.8 was and still is the most competitive version of all minecraft which has achieved the highest pick of players in all minecraft servers of which cubecraft, gommehd, epicube, mineplex, and hypixel with its pick of 216.000 players 1 year ago with +40.000 players in 1 single mode like bedwars focused on pvp 1.8.

Focusing your server on a new version like 1.19 which has practically no player base and suddenly changes the PVP combat again doesn't seem to have much more future than 1.12. However, adding the 3/4 most played gamemodes of 1.8 such as skywars, team skywars, team eggwars and ffa will probably generate more repercussions for their return than 1.19 itself with its new content boost since cubecraft has always been the server of choice for all 1.8 skywars players.

The players and the different communities of 1.8 do not ask to add extra modes that generate unnecessary costs to the server and therefore make the server decline and waste their resources. Simply that these 3/4 modes can be played in the 1.8 version and in the main version of cube which will be 1.19 (as it was done previously with 1.8 and 1.12). I mean, whoever wants to play skywars 1.19 with their new features, go ahead, but let them play in 1.8 as well.

You are free to implement all your quality content to 1.19 and leave 1.8 as it was. The 1.8 doesn't need any quality content, the version itself is what characterizes the quality of the game. The quality of sentinel is indifferent to the 1.8 community as long as there are people actively moderating the server. This work is unpaid so it does not generate any cost to the server and as long as there are moderators the server will be clean of cheaters, having a very advanced anti-cheat is very indifferent and not a priority at all, people continue hacking with ghostclients and with different bypasses that allow them not to be detected by an advanced anti-cheat, that is why the importance of moderators.

With this I'm not saying that cubecraft should add new game modes for 1.8 to increse their player base or that all the modalities of 1.8 should be maintained, simply the most played gamemodes by the 1.8 community. You cannot compare the Bedrock player base with Java and even less Bedrock with Java 1.8 specifically, they are completely different versions, Bedrock is practically a different game. Its not about to go back with everything, its about to leave a place for that community that has always supported cubecraft since its opening.

Sorry if there are any spelling mistakes in the post, thanks for reading and you are free to comment your opinion.

 

[Redned]

Hey, thanks for the suggestion, but this is something that is not feasible nor economical for us. I've responded to a few points you mentioned to hopefully break it down a bit as to why.

I would like to talk about the return of certain 1.8 gamemodes which the whole community is still waiting for, I have read different posts saying that version 1.8 started to gradually decrease the amount of players as it can happen in any version, even in 1.12, all these months serve as a reference of the decline of 1.12, which you guys thought was going to have an incredible potential and look where it is now, with less player base than an average server of 1.8.

It is true that over the past few years, there has been a gradual decline of all Minecraft servers as a whole. However it is worth noting that when we made the decision to close 1.8, Minecraft was seeing a massive popularity boost and whereas both Java 1.9 and Bedrock were growing, 1.8 had very few gains. When we made the decision to close 1.8, it had declined to about roughly 1% of our entire Java & Bedrock playerbases combined, and required a disproportionate amount of resources to maintain (especially when it came to integral parts of the player experience, such as maintaining Sentinel).

The 1.8 still has thousands and thousands players scattered across different servers, most of which are focused on PVP environments. The 1.8 was and still is the most competitive version of all minecraft which has achieved the highest pick of players in all minecraft servers of which cubecraft, gommehd, epicube, mineplex, and hypixel with its pick of 216.000 players 1 year ago with +40.000 players in 1 single mode like bedwars focused on pvp 1.8.

While 1.8 may have a sizable playerbase, it's been on the decline for a few years. As Minecraft has continued to update, the number of players on newer versions increases and the demand for a server on such an outdated version decreases.

Focusing your server on a new version like 1.19 which has practically no player base and suddenly changes the PVP combat again doesn't seem to have much more future than 1.12. However, adding the 3/4 most played gamemodes of 1.8 such as skywars, team skywars, team eggwars and ffa will probably generate more repercussions for their return than 1.19 itself with its new content boost since cubecraft has always been the server of choice for all 1.8 skywars players.

Newer versions make up the far majority of our playercount (and really Minecraft as a whole), so saying there is "no player base" there is simply untrue. If there was really no players on the latest version, we would not be updating right now. It's in our best interest as a server to be on the version that will serve the majority of players and will allow us to make the best content possible, and as it looks now, updating to the latest version is the best way we can do that. We're super pumped about the advances in content and updates we'll be able to bring on 1.19!

The players and the different communities of 1.8 do not ask to add extra modes that generate unnecessary costs to the server and therefore make the server decline and waste their resources. Simply that these 3/4 modes can be played in the 1.8 version and in the main version of cube which will be 1.19 (as it was done previously with 1.8 and 1.12). I mean, whoever wants to play skywars 1.19 with their new features, go ahead, but let them play in 1.8 as well.

You are free to implement all your quality content to 1.19 and leave 1.8 as it was. The 1.8 doesn't need any quality content, the version itself is what characterizes the quality of the game. The quality of sentinel is indifferent to the 1.8 community as long as there are people actively moderating the server. This work is unpaid so it does not generate any cost to the server and as long as there are moderators the server will be clean of cheaters, having a very advanced anti-cheat is very indifferent and not a priority at all, people continue hacking with ghostclients and with different bypasses that allow them not to be detected by an advanced anti-cheat, that is why the importance of moderators.

No matter what, maintenance is required. Bringing back 1.8 and just "leaving it" won't work, as issues will inevitably pop up over time and will need to be fixed. Unfortunately, as was the case in the past, the amount of work required here was quite significant.

It's important to note that AntiCheat work is often seen as more of a cat-and-mouse game on 1.8. It's significantly more challenging to keep up to date from an AntiCheat standpoint, and although our moderators are excellent at what they do and are amazing people, they also have lives outside of CubeCraft. Having moderators watch over every single game 24/7 is not feasible and again, brings back the issue of requiring a disproportionate amount of resources.

Additionally, we've also made significant changes to the way CubeCraft operates internally, such as rewriting our game library. We'd have to port all our games to 1.8 (again) and onto our new library, which once again, would require a disproportionate amount of resources. We'd also have very little gain by doing so given how few players actually played 1.8 on CubeCraft.

We're grateful for all the memories 1.8 brought along with how far it carried us since 2014, but our sights are set on the future, and backtracking is not something we're interested in doing.

 

[Xicotet]

Hey, thanks for the suggestion, but this is something that is not feasiblen or economical for us. I've responded to a few points you mentioned to hopefully break it down a bit as to why.


It is true that over the past few years, there has been a gradual decline of all Minecraft servers as a whole. However it is worth noting that when we made the decision to close 1.8, Minecraft was seeing a massive popularity boost and whereas both Java 1.9 and Bedrock were growing, 1.8 had very few gains. When we made the decision to close 1.8, it had declined to about roughly 1% of our entire Java & Bedrock playerbases combined, and required a disproportionate amount of resources to maintain (especially when it came to integral parts of the player experience, such as maintaining Sentinel).


While 1.8 may have a sizable playerbase, it's been on the decline for a few years. As Minecraft has continued to update, the number of players on newer versions increases and the demand for a server on such an outdated version decreases.


Newer versions make up the far majority of our playercount (and really Minecraft as a whole), so saying there is "no player base" there is simply untrue. If there was really no players on the latest version, we would not be updating right now. It's in our best interest as a server to be on the version that will serve the majority of players and will allow us to make the best content possible, and as it looks now, updating to the latest version is the best way we can do that. We're super pumped about the advances in content and updates we'll be able to bring on 1.19!


No matter what, maintenance is required. Bringing back 1.8 and just "leaving it" won't work, as issues will inevitably pop up over time and will need to be fixed. Unfortunately, as was the case in the past, the amount of work required here was quite significant.

It's important to note that AntiCheat work is often seen as more of a cat-and-mouse game on 1.8. It's significantly more challenging to keep up to date from an AntiCheat standpoint, and although our moderators are excellent at what they do and are amazing people, they also have lives outside of CubeCraft. Having moderators watch over every single game 24/7 is not feasible and again, brings back the issue of requiring a disproportionate amount of resources.

Additionally, we've also made significant changes to the way CubeCraft operates internally, such as rewriting our game library. We'd have to port all our games to 1.8 (again) and onto our new library, which once again, would require a disproportionate amount of resources. We'd also have very little gain by doing so given how few players actually played 1.8 on CubeCraft.

We're grateful for all the memories 1.8 brought along with how far it carried us since 2014, but our sights are set on the future, and backtracking is not something we're interested in doing.

Dear cubecraft,
I would like to talk about the return of certain 1.8 gamemodes which the whole community is still waiting for, I have read different posts saying that version 1.8 started to gradually decrease the amount of players as it can happen in any version, even in 1.12, all these months serve as a reference of the decline of 1.12, which you guys thought was going to have an incredible potential and look where it is now, with less player base than an average server of 1.8.

The 1.8 still has thousands and thousands players scattered across different servers, most of which are focused on PVP environments. The 1.8 was and still is the most competitive version of all minecraft which has achieved the highest pick of players in all minecraft servers of which cubecraft, gommehd, epicube, mineplex, and hypixel with its pick of 216.000 players 1 year ago with +40.000 players in 1 single mode like bedwars focused on pvp 1.8.

Focusing your server on a new version like 1.19 which has practically no player base and suddenly changes the PVP combat again doesn't seem to have much more future than 1.12. However, adding the 3/4 most played gamemodes of 1.8 such as skywars, team skywars, team eggwars and ffa will probably generate more repercussions for their return than 1.19 itself with its new content boost since cubecraft has always been the server of choice for all 1.8 skywars players.

The players and the different communities of 1.8 do not ask to add extra modes that generate unnecessary costs to the server and therefore make the server decline and waste their resources. Simply that these 3/4 modes can be played in the 1.8 version and in the main version of cube which will be 1.19 (as it was done previously with 1.8 and 1.12). I mean, whoever wants to play skywars 1.19 with their new features, go ahead, but let them play in 1.8 as well.

You are free to implement all your quality content to 1.19 and leave 1.8 as it was. The 1.8 doesn't need any quality content, the version itself is what characterizes the quality of the game. The quality of sentinel is indifferent to the 1.8 community as long as there are people actively moderating the server. This work is unpaid so it does not generate any cost to the server and as long as there are moderators the server will be clean of cheaters, having a very advanced anti-cheat is very indifferent and not a priority at all, people continue hacking with ghostclients and with different bypasses that allow them not to be detected by an advanced anti-cheat, that is why the importance of moderators.

With this I'm not saying that cubecraft should add new game modes for 1.8 to increse their player base or that all the modalities of 1.8 should be maintained, simply the most played gamemodes by the 1.8 community. You cannot compare the Bedrock player base with Java and even less Bedrock with Java 1.8 specifically, they are completely different versions, Bedrock is practically a different game. Its not about to go back with everything, its about to leave a place for that community that has always supported cubecraft since its opening.

Sorry if there are any spelling mistakes in the post, thanks for reading and you are free to comment your opinion.

well you got a point but I still stand by the fact that if you had done things right in the first place. Nothing would've gone wrong and it wouldn't have shut down due to lack of financial resources. A clear example is Hypixel, who mantains the 1.8 version and still has a ton of daily players

 

[Buckyy]

While 1.8 may have a sizable playerbase, it's been on the decline for a few years.

The decline is in minecraft and it is understandable, not in a particular version. All versions have and have had their declines.

As Minecraft has continued to update, the number of players on newer versions increases

Updating cubecraft to 1.19 is the solution of the problems?
Perhaps not. In fact, you should know what happened years ago when you started this, yet you continue to backslide to it.

the demand for a server on such an outdated version decreases.

If the demand for a server on such an outdated version decreases, why is it still the most played version of minecraft in terms of largue multiplayer servers?
Perhaps not all of the problem stems from the version, but from the administration that has been in charge of it, could these changes have been affected by bad decisions and drastic changes in the server?

Here you have an example of it

Hypixel statistics November 2022

As you can see, 70% of hypixel players come from the version you are talking about, out of 50,000 daily players, 35,000 come from 1.8 in practically 2023.
More than 7 years being the most supported version by far even having the most recent versions of Minecraft, doesn't it make you think? The graph speaks for itself.

Most large multiplayer servers currently share these statistics having both versions (1.8-1.19), Universo between them.

so saying there is "no player base" there is simply untrue.

It's not that it's untrue, it's that the 1.8 community in minecraft is far more extensive/supported than 1.19. 1.19 is a relatively new version and did not have a lot of support from the Minecraft community compared to other versions.

No matter what, maintenance is required. Bringing back 1.8 and just "leaving it" won't work

You're right, in fact this applies to the current 1.12 and the future 1.19 as well, if you don't take care of your communities, the communities disappear.

We're grateful for all the memories 1.8 brought along with how far it carried us since 2014, but our sights are set on the future, and backtracking is not something we're interested in doing.

Understandable as a company but you can't excuse yourself that since 1.8 is an outdated version people prefer current versions because that's not the case. (talking about multiplayer servers, since is what we can see not about mod servers or single players).

 

[Redned]

The decline is in minecraft and it is understandable, not in a particular version. All versions have and have had their declines.

It is true Minecraft has certainly seen a decline in the past couple of years, however legacy versions continue to decline at a larger rate.

Updating cubecraft to 1.19 is the solution of the problems?
Perhaps not. In fact, you should know what happened years ago when you started this, yet you continue to backslide to it.

When we initially updated to 1.9 from 1.8, it was a decision made right after the 1.9 update had released and before anyone knew how it would impact the community. We added 1.8 support back since we realized at the time it was still very popular within our own community.

By the time we updated to 1.12 nearly 2 years ago, 1.8 was only a fraction of the size it had once been on CubeCraft, making up on average 1% of our entire playerbase on both networks. In general the 1.12 update was well-received on both platforms and allowed us to improve our content a decent bit at the time.

If the demand for a server on such an outdated version decreases, why is it still the most played version of minecraft in terms of largue multiplayer servers?
Perhaps not all of the problem stems from the version, but from the administration that has been in charge of it, could these changes have been affected by bad decisions and drastic changes in the server?

Here you have an example of it

View attachment 218333
Hypixel statistics November 2022

As you can see, 70% of hypixel players come from the version you are talking about, out of 50,000 daily players, 35,000 come from 1.8 in practically 2023.
More than 7 years being the most supported version by far even having the most recent versions of Minecraft, doesn't it make you think? The graph speaks for itself.

Most large multiplayer servers currently share these statistics having both versions (1.8-1.19), Universo between them.

Given the server you are referencing is an outlier in many regards (and has essentially "secured" this market), it's unfair to use them as the single source of information when it comes to the number of players on a certain version. Most all servers still on 1.8 that competed with them during their hayday are only a fraction of the size they used to be, or are no longer online.

However, when you look at the number of Minecraft servers online, only 5.8% of them are on 1.8 (for reference, this number was around 15% 2 years ago).

Source: https://bstats.org/global/bukkit.

To put this in perspective, in total, there are over 150k Minecraft servers currently running, peaking up to 215k players in the past month (these metrics excludes most all massive MC servers as they tend to opt-out). Given 1.19 tends to be the most popular version given this metric, the majority of players are likely on those more modern servers, given their abundance compared to the rest.

It's not that it's untrue, it's that the 1.8 community in minecraft is far more extensive/supported than 1.19. 1.19 is a relatively new version and did not have a lot of support from the Minecraft community compared to other versions.

Naturally by existing longer, more content will exist for said community. However, everything builds upon itself and things such as server software (i.e. Spigot) build upon older versions.

Being able to take advantage of new game features is also a huge benefit and generally is something a huge portion of the community follows. If nobody followed updates released by Mojang, why would they even bother updating the game? The game is certainly big enough for Mojang to keep developing it, so as long as that is the case, the latest version will have support from the community. Remaining on 1.8 hinders the ability to advance forward and take advantage of new gameplay features.

You're right, in fact this applies to the current 1.12 and the future 1.19 as well, if you don't take care of your communities, the communities disappear.

Absolutely! I was referring to the idea that was suggested about adding back 1.8 and just "leaving" it, which wouldn't really work out.

Understandable as a company but you can't excuse yourself that since 1.8 is an outdated version people prefer current versions because that's not the case. (talking about multiplayer servers, since is what we can see not about mod servers or single players).

While I do understand there are still players on this version, it's not something that is feasible for us to support and the level of quality we could provide through our updates and game content is hindered significantly. Newer versions of Minecraft allow us to unleash our creativity and provide many more opportunities for new and unique content. There is only so much that can be done on 1.8.

 

[Buckyy]

However, when you look at the number of Minecraft servers online, only 5.8% of them are on 1.8 (for reference, this number was around 15% 2 years ago).

View attachment 218334
Source: https://bstats.org/global/bukkit.

To put this in perspective, in total, there are over 150k Minecraft servers currently running, peaking up to 215k players in the past month (these metrics excludes most all massive MC servers as they tend to opt-out). Given 1.19 tends to be the most popular version given this metric, the majority of players are likely on those more modern servers, given their abundance compared to the rest.

I thought I stand my message clear. I am not talking about the number of servers that are current in minecraft and I did not mention that. Of course there are more current servers in 1.19 since is one of the newest version, but talking about the most large servers of minecraft that both communities maintain, the community that stands out is 1.8, that is what I talked about, you can find out as well with UniversoCraft or any server which combine both versions if it does not serve as a reference Hypixel.

I return to your message, which you said that is an outdated version. If it were as you said, servers with large communities would prefer to play on 1.19 instead of 1.8 which is uncertain.

The fact that its the version of which there are the most servers today is not something new, the version came out months ago, and therefore people try to invest in their businesses. Regardless with this, my argument still stands, large servers of 1.8 and 1.19 with both communities, 1.8 predominates over 1.19 even though 1.19 is a new version. The servers that maintain their communities from the roots preserve this, bad management unfortunately decreases as is the case.

The graph that I sent speaks of the predominance of players for their different versions on the same server with the new version and the outdated one, which has nothing to do with a comparative graph of the number of current servers which predominates the most recent version.

Newer versions of Minecraft allow us to unleash our creativity and provide many more opportunities for new and unique content. There is only so much that can be done on 1.8.

This is the typical thing that is usually said, the same thing happened with the update to 1.12, we are going to offer new changes by removing 1.8 that this version provide us much more incredible and unique content; after all, barely new content and sudden changes on menu guis that do not affect any gameplay.

I don't understand why there is a need to lie to your own community and constantly hiding changes which have been discussed several times in the forums.