Mid Camping, Bows, Potions and More.

[ChillyTree]

Hacking is part of the game. Should we just let that go?

Hacking is a different situation. Hacking is against the rules and is never let go no matter what situation. A whole bunch of people report. This is real and fair game play. What he is suggesting could change the whole system. If you want diamonds/emeralds, find a way to mid faster/safer. The one thing I do agree on is increasing the price on bows.

 

[CommunistCactus]

Though mid camping is a little bit OP, it is just the game play, so why should we change it?

The Oh so populair: "But it's part of the game"
That something is a part of the game doesn't make it good. Lowpixel's bedwars has very little issues with campers and is immensely popular, even taking quite a lot of players from eggwars.

Please, actually read the thread, you're making yourself look stupid.

 

[Hypixel Network]

Let me give you the usual scenario:

Map: Fairground
Your team: Green
Their team: Orange

Orange rushed mid pretty much as soon as they had access to blocks, and a minute or so later the 2 others came with decent gear to control mid. The naked one, got enough for a bow and a dozen arrows. He can basically prevent anyone from continuing the bridge.
BEFORE mr. naked got a bow, the others had to deal with you guys ALSO coming to mid. They managed to kill you off, and they decided to run over your bridge as far as they could before you could punch them off. When they reached their destination, they decided to break all of the bridge, and by the time they already finished, mr. not-so-naked-anymore got a bow. Now what do you do? You had a shot, but you couldn't make it back with diamonds. The other teams tried rushing each other AND orange, but failed due to the bow & good defence. Orange lost their egg in an attempted rush, but that doesn't stop them from mid camping. Nobody but them have bows, nobody but them have diamonds. Tell me: What can you?
Levitation potions could work, as long as a single potion is worth more than a layer of obsidian. Else players would just use this to rush nearly naked & pop other eggs with no effort.



Test what out exactly? 'Cause mid camping has been proven not to be too hard to do.


I do have one more question for the levitation potion, though. What do you do about the received fall damage after landing on mid? You're there, little health, they're hitting you while you're trying to regenerate. What do you do? Add a feather falling enchantment somehow? Actually, that might be a neat suggestion I could do...
I don't really feel like picking a specific kit to benefit in a somewhat rare scenario, so what can we do?

Test its effects against some of the greatest eggwars players of all time - including Azurimatite

 

[Qin Shihuangdi]

Hacking is a different situation. Hacking is against the rules and is never let go no matter what situation. A whole bunch of people report. This is real and fair game play. What he is suggesting could change the whole system. If you want diamonds/emeralds, find a way to mid faster/safer. The one thing I do agree on is increasing the price on bows.

O rly? I kill about 70% of the hackers I face - this number is higher in eggwars and SG and is weighed down a bit by other games.

I can only kill about 20% of mid campers - and that might be a bit generous.

Test its effects against some of the greatest eggwars players of all time - including Azurimatite

We're not talking about the top 20 Eggwars players. We're talking about a problem that affects the vast majority of eggwars players in negative ways.

 

[Hypixel Network]

O rly? I kill about 70% of the hackers I face - this number is higher in eggwars and SG and is weighed down a bit by other games.

I can only kill about 20% of mid campers - and that might be a bit generous.

We're not talking about the top 20 Eggwars players. We're talking about a problem that affects the vast majority of eggwars players in negative ways.

Dont you want to understand the situation better ? How it starts , learn strategies to stop it etc?

Theres a reason we have diamond generators on our islands you know , to decrease effects of mid camping.

 

[matcha]

Dont you want to understand the situation better ? How it starts , learn strategies to stop it etc?

Theres a reason we have diamond generators on our islands you know , to decrease effects of mid camping.

You can learn strategies to stop it, but that doesn't mean it will work.

 

[Hypixel Network]

You can learn strategies to stop it, but that doesn't mean it will work.

Doesnt mean it wont either

 

[Qin Shihuangdi]

Dont you want to understand the situation better ? How it starts , learn strategies to stop it etc?

Theres a reason we have diamond generators on our islands you know , to decrease effects of mid camping.

How many times do I have to say YOU CAN'T GET DIAMONDS AGAINST MID CAMPERS

 

[matcha]

Doesnt mean it wont either

Alright. Let me rephrase myself. You can learn strategies to prevent people from mid camping. But if you don't have any diamonds, then your diamond gen is useless. You have chainmail armor, but the mid campers have iron. You have blocks, but your enemies have bows. What do you do? As soon as someone takes over mid, you're pretty screwed if you didn't manage to get anything. You'll be in a huge disadvantage. But if the suggested items were added, it wouldn't be much of an issue.

Not to mention, along with these new items, the game mode would be 10x more interesting.

 

[Hypixel Network]

Botth your replies are circumstancial. Mid camping isnt magic . It effects are drastic only when you allow it to happen by sitting at your base and doing nothing

 

[matcha]

Botth your replies are circumstancial. Mid camping isnt magic . It effects are drastic only when you allow it to happen by sitting at your base and doing nothing

It's effects are drastic because you can't do anything but operate at your base.

 

[Hypixel Network]

Lets hear your solution nevermind i re read the thread you guys make me forget stuff

 

[matcha]

I'm not a man of intros so let's get on with it.
(Just read the whole thread before commenting, not doing so only makes yourself look stupid, with that said,)

Mid camping is a broken problem strategy that is ruining eggwars.
Let me explain. First of all, some quotes from various people:


Have you read all that? Great! You should now have a basic understanding of what mid camping is and why it is such a great deal. Now let me give you an example of your average game against a mid camper:

(all credits go to @Donald J. Trump , man, your text walls are so good you should put one on the Mexican border)
By now, you should understand that this strategy is absolutely devastating and not making the game any better.
Now, because some people are not that great at understanding a wall of text, I decided to make a video explaining it. It's only 8 minutes, so it doesn't hurt to give it a look. Here it is:

You watched all that? Great!

Spoiler: Here is another example

But Kronos, that is only the map space (and Aztec if you read the text) / But Kronos, that's only OP mode! Sure these problems don't exist on other maps with normal items?

Spoiler: Oh they do.

Spoiler: But Kronos I think mid camping isn't a problem because..

"It's actually a valid strategy"

Spoiler: But Kronos I think mid camping isn't a problem because..

Oh yes it is, so is teaming and base camping. It's a valid strategy, but is it making the game any better? NO.
"You just have to stop it before it happens and it's your own fault if you don't / Go offensive in the beginning / Rush everyone"
As seen in my videos, all it takes is 1 punch bow by 1 player out of maybe 40. It's just not a valid argument. The only way to prevent an enemy from mid camping is by mid camping yourself, still making mid camping a problem.
"Just go to their egg"
They don't care about their egg, they won't die because they have all the gear in the world.
The Oh so populair: "But it's part of the game"
That something is a part of the game doesn't make it good. Lowpixel's bedwars has very little issues with campers and is immensely popular, even taking quite a lot of players from eggwars.
"Just keep respawning and try again and put your valuables in a chest"
You mean dieing over and over again without reaching anything?
"Just split up"
Will guarantee your death.

Alright, enough examples. Mid camping is clearly a problem, it's pretty hard to deny that now.
So what do we do about it?
First of all, the solution has to be available for gold or iron, since you will have no access to mid, and therefore diamonds. Secondly, it shouldn't be too exploitable, and third and most importantly: It has to work. With these factors in mind, what solutions are there?

There are some suggestions, however most are either pretty over-complicated and hard to implement, too exploitable or not practical, so I tried to come up with a few simple and viable solutions, here they are:

Let's start with the main suggestion: Adding Invisibility potions and Levitation potions.
These would be 32 gold each, and would last for 20 seconds. Why exactly?
Since they are available for gold, it's accessible to most starting islands. They are not too exploitable since a flying target won't be hard to hit, and it's quite a price to pay just to get to another island, (remember that once there not all your problems will suddenly disappear) and they are practical: Not hard to implement, not hard to understand, and not hard to use. Seems reasonable huh? I thought so, and therefore, I decided to actually try it instead of just talking a bunch of theory about it:

Spoiler: But Kronos....

"This would cause constant running and hopping between islands, just like late stage OP games / Campers would run away when you pearl to them"
It wouldn't. As you can see in the video, it takes only 3 shots to kill someone flying with a punch bow, and only 2 shots with a power bow + You can knock him further from the islands into the nothingness with your punch bow letting them fall to their death.
"But they can keep their armor on, what do they care that you see them flying?"
Since they have quite a lot of gold to pull this off multiple times, you should have enough gold to buy some (slowness) arrows and blow them out of the sky. You would kill them before they can even reach mid.
"But armor in OP is much stronger"
In OP there already is an endless game of chasing going on, I don't think levitation potions would add so much to it.
"But they can fly with a shield"
And then fall to their deaths in the void because flying with a shield is pretty slow.
"But they can have a lot of potions"
Which means you have a lot of arrows and also probably enough to follow him, whether it be by a normal bridge or by using potions yourself.
"But they wouldn't be seen when going away because they also have invis potions"
Since you were already in a fight, the enemy should have some arrows in their body (which take long to despawn) which completely destroys the use of it + Even if they didn't, they had to take off their armor first making them very vulnerable to your sword and other weapons.
"They'd be available too early"
32 gold is not really available very early, and since you want to use them early why not use a normal bridge since it's cheaper and nobody has a bow yet anyway.
"People can use invisibility potions to hide in a corner forever"
You have a compass + Potion particles + It's only 20 seconds + Drinking one makes noise.
"But you can sneak up behind someone and knock them off the island"
That's kinda the whole goal. Getting rid of the enemy somehow.
"You'll just shoot them to mid"
They'd be dead before they reach it due to the damage + you can steer them away from it.
"It's too overpowered for it's price"
The thing that is too overpowered here is mid camping. The potions are quite a lot of gold for only bringing you to the other side, not to mention reaching the other side doesn't automatically mean you've won. You still have to kill them.

It's not the best eggwars simulator, but it's good enough:

(I know, it's not actually me using the potions, I tried it, but siblings are siblings you know...)

Alright, now that that's all done and talked about, onto the next suggestion:
Make shields cheaper.
Why is it that a bow is 8 diamonds, but a shield 30? It just doesn't make any sense. Shields are an effective counter against campers in general, as well as mid campers, so I don't see why this hasn't changed yet.

Now the last suggestion:
Increase the price of bows.
A shield is 30 diamonds making it hard to counter, a punch bow + a camper slows down the game too freaking much, so just change it.

Hope you all like it. Make sure to comment what you think about it. (but only if you have read everything)

TL;DR:
No, read the thread, not just a summary, otherwise just don't comment, it's only making you look stupid.
Alright I'll give you one anyway, but don't comment before reading it all ok? Good: TL;DR Mid camping is a problem and levitation potions and invisibility potions are a well possible solution.

Lets hear your solution

There you go.

 

[Hypixel Network]

Yeahhhh youre a couple seconds too late with that just realised it myself

 

[ChillyTree]

Please, actually read the thread, you're making yourself look stupid.

I have and I do not think it is not much of a problem. I always rush to mid than rush back to start my diamond gen. No one can get mid camping and kill me just like that. I did not make myself look stupid, I just stated my opinion. It is ok that we have different opinions, but calling someone stupid for not having the one you are on? That is just rude.Threads is about explaining your idea, not arguing. You want feedback of different sides to see the ups and downs. People would get mad that because some people couldn't find an easy solution, they had to change the game.

 

[CommunistCactus]

I have and I do not think it is not much of a problem. I always rush to mid than rush back to start my diamond gen. No one can get mid camping and kill me just like that.

I, I, Me, I.

The problem here is not about one specific person, it's about the entire game mode. Just because you don't have a problem with it doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist, and the thing is: The problem does exist. Just look at all of the examples.

It is ok that we have different opinions, but calling someone stupid for not having the one you are on? That is just rude.

There is a difference between saying someone is stupid and saying someone is making themselves look stupid.

You want feedback of different sides to see the ups and downs.

Yes, you're right. I want feedback.
However, saying something that I already replied on before you even said it is not feedback.

So, having in mind the entire community of cubecraft, and having seen this video, and having understood that just because something is "part of the game" it doesn't mean it's good, what are your thoughts on mid camping?

 

[ChillyTree]

I, I, Me, I.

The problem here is not about one specific person, it's about the entire game mode. Just because you don't have a problem with it doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist, and the thing is: The problem does exist. Just look at all of the examples.

There is a difference between saying someone is stupid and saying someone is making themselves look stupid.

Yes, you're right. I want feedback.
However, saying something that I already replied on before you even said it is not feedback.

So, having in mind the entire community of cubecraft, and having seen this video, and having understood that just because something is "part of the game" it doesn't mean it's good, what are your thoughts on mid camping?

You know what, since you can't begin to cooperate with me, I am leaving this conversation. Saying someone is making them self look stupid is highly rude just because they state there opinion. I did what I thought was good in my opinion, so don't be rude. Good day.

 

[CommunistCactus]

Again, I'm fine with different opinions, however it appears that you didn't read the thread, and you didn't really give any arguments that support your opinion.

 

[SpankMeSanta]

I think the real problem here is the punch bow, not specifically mid camping. Increase the price of punch bows/arrows and it will take longer for mid campers to get to mid, buy a bow, and come back to mid, and that should give the other teams enough time to build to mid. Increasing the punch bow price would mean that fights would take insanely long in OP mode though because people chug gapples, so maybe the gapple prices should also be increased.

And tbh I've not seen many mid campers in games at all, and I've won 100% of my games where people attempt to mid camp, so either they were awful mid campers and not looking at bridges, or it shows that mid campers are usually garbage at pvp (although I've not seen enough to be able to judge yet).

 

[CommandantSlime]

Honestly, I don't think too much of this stuff needs to be added. Levitation potions would be nice, but I definitely don't want invisibility potions. Cheaper shields and more expensive bows would ruin the game for me, as the value and usability of bows would be even worse than it is now. Also, I think people should just deal with campers and leave the game if it's that annoying. We shouldn't need items that would unbalance the game to beat them.