All Networks The Staff Team

[99th_DutchVoid]

but you don't let teachers go out and teach people stuff when they don't know what they're talking about. People are thought to trust teachers and learn from what they say, if a teacher says to you pushing people is polite, as a young person you think your teacher is the person you should trust for info and therefor you go and take that info on. The same goes for staff members especially support staff members who are there for support whether it be in game, in a support channel or through email. You will trust that person for information as they are the person who has that information. As an employee you should know not to give an answer your unsure about as it can mislead people.

Sooo, nobody can make mistakes and should know every detail by heart from day one? Pretty high expectations, don't you think?
Also, your comparison is off: no staff is encouraging bad behaviour.
Finally: helpers and mods are volunteers, not employees...

 

[Matriox]

Sooo, nobody can make mistakes and should know every detail by heart from day one? Pretty high expectations, don't you think?
Also, your comparison is off: no staff is encouraging bad behaviour.
Finally: helpers and mods are volunteers, not employees...

actually knowing a few facts about a minecraft server are things all active community members know, saying stuff that all active community members know is allowed isn't allowed is a problem with recruitment, you need active community members who understand the rules as they already have a baseline understanding as a helper. Anything above facts all members know that a helper may not know should be asked about from someone who knows about it as it does effect people.

 

[Blom]

I tried to bring up patience to read every single point made in and under this thread (impossible, this thread gets spammed faster than I can read (good thing, more useful points to discuss!)), so if I say something that can be voided since it would be irrelevant, my bad

I'd like to find some common ground here:
- We all think helpers are the future of the staff team. They will eventually become mods, sr mods, maybe even admin.
- We all agree on the point that there are inconsistencies. Staff members are human after all, we can't expect them to do everything correctly first try
- We all state that currently, a part of the system is failing. As a community member I can't see behind the scenes, but I do see the results, which is what it is all about in the end
- Last, we all know that the Staff Team is built for the players to have the best possible experience on CubeCraft.

Now my personal opinions:
- I don't see how setting up a Staff Training would be a bad idea. Some people won't need it, others will find it very useful. Whether you like it or not, it can help people with the capacity of becoming a great staff member in order to get there. It's like getting tutored in school: It's not specifically a bad thing, and it doesn't buy away all mistakes on your exams, but it does improve the way of thinking, takes away a few errors and eventually will get you a higher grade. Let's say whether we think the staff team is a 4 or an 8, I don't see why striving for a 10 is a bad thing.
- I could say a lot about requirements, selection process, bad helpers or specific errors, but I won't. Thanks xHappyMood for taking the time to show us a lot of examples, it does show a lack in the system, and it should be fixed.
- For a problem on a system made out of humans it will be impossible to find a solution that will work directly, that will work for 100%, that will work on the longer terms, that will work for everybody. Whatever it is that comes out of this huge thread discussion, we all know it won't satisfy all of us. That is fine, because eventually it is not about showing off, showing people how good we are in what we do, pointing out others mistakes. We all know it's about our experience on a sever we once fell in love with and tried to get closer involved with.

As my love for CubeCraft, admiration for the staff team but also my understandings for my fellow community members, I just hope to find a solution which we all benefit from. I know it's there, we just have to dig as deep as necessary to find it

 

[99th_DutchVoid]

actually knowing a few facts about a minecraft server are things all active community members know, saying stuff that all active community members know is allowed isn't allowed is a problem with recruitment, you need active community members who understand the rules as they already have a baseline understanding as a helper. Anything above facts all members know that a helper may not know should be asked about from someone who knows about it as it does effect people.

I derive from this that you're acknowledging my point about the invalid comparison
I totally agree with your solution (although I think I have to rewrite it a little): active community members should apply to become helpers! See you in the next helper wave?

 

[Matriox]

Well there's also a problem that you must take on a sort of "wannabe" or "mini-mod" attitude when you're starting to apply for helper but who has the time(well some people) but that's another problem which hasn't been addressed, i think they're missing out on a lot of great helpers just because you must sacrifice your own personality to become helper as you must fit under these stereotypes of what a helper applicant looks like. And i don't think anyone can deny this fact, we all see people who are trying to be helpers who have this sort of personality because this is their only chance of being helper

 

[99th_DutchVoid]

Well there's also a problem that you must take on a sort of "wannabe" or "mini-mod" attitude when you're starting to apply for helper but who has the time(well some people) but that's another problem which hasn't been addressed, i think they're missing out on a lot of great helpers just because you must sacrifice your own personality to become helper as you must fit under these stereotypes of what a helper applicant looks like. And i don't think anyone can deny this fact, we all see people who are trying to be helpers who have this sort of personality because this is their only chance of being helper

Aaahh, I see. You mean the Active Community Members I've been hearing about? Or, at least, the ones that actually apply for helper?
I think I can deny that fact, actually (stop using that phrase please, it's really a sign of weakness in a discussion). There's no requirement of 'giving up your personality', those are just the people actually being crazy enough to apply for being a volunteer helper and deal with the ungratefulness of the toxic part of this community. You can apply too, just be nice and you might just be able to show how perfect of a helper you could be during the next helper wave! Be aware, though, there's a small part of the community that really expects you to make no mistakes from day one!

 

[Matriox]

Be aware, though, there's a small part of the community that really expects you to make no mistakes from day one!

Yea i think little mistakes should be expected of official staff members of this server, if a helper is unsure on something they shouldn't mislead people with untruthful information, its pretty simple, and i see we just disagree on this, i think the helper period should be a training period and you think it should be a trial period in which people learn from mistakes, i think these mistakes actually affect the community and seem unprofessional to people who may just come up to staff help for a simple questions once a month or whatever

 

[99th_DutchVoid]

Not really sure what the difference is between a 'training period' and a 'trail period where people learn from mistakes', but I might just have a different definition of training then.
Anyway, I agree to disagree, because I think my point about helpers being volunteers, and in the process of learning etc. has been made and this has once again wasted wayyy too much of my time (blame myself on that one, though).
Love to the staff and you all have a great evening together!

P.S. Still think y'all should apply to be helper and give the good example

 

[Deleted member 347571]

Being a staff is never going to be easy since a lot of people might disagree with the decisions you make even though it is the right one and it wilk never be good for everyone and i personally think making mistakes as a helper id alright aslong as they learn from it.

Should they hire more people that are loved by the community? Perhaps. The fact that the the feeling of being an actual community is slowly fading is pretty sad, no events, no community games, barely any community talks, the forums is dying and the people who remain on the server barely know eachother except in lobby 1 etc. OG people could actually be a good start to solve this.

 

[Ge1ster]

I just want to ask that if helper phase is just a trial, then why are helpers even allowed to reply in staff help? Or even get their rank at all?

Going off on a good metaphor Matriox gave:
Consider helper like being a teacher. In order to be a teacher, you have to go through academy training, go through a lot of tests, and finally get a degree. Helper is similar in a lot of ways except that you actually get the rank DURING the trial.

The only close to reasonable response I could think of is "They learn from the mistakes they make" but even that has its own contradictions within itself. Mistakes are always going to be made, they're only human. Then at least let them learn as much as possible (and learn about them as much as possible) before getting the staff rank so that they reduce the visible mistakes as much as possible. That's literally more "as much as possible" than I've used in my entire life lol

 

[xHappyMood]

I'd argue that these are qualities Admins should have, not moderators.

Oh yeah I see my bad bro

Anyway, are you saying helpers can be completely separate from the community and don’t have to be involved in it at all?

Most of your complaints are poor English and inconsistent information, so I'm not sure where knowledge of the community comes into that.

I just picked that up from the point you were replying too

You can't keep making the same point about the minimum requirements being too low when I've already explained that every single member who passes minimum requirements gets a manual inspection from 12 different experienced team members. The point is irrelevant now.

If the requirements entirely decided who gets on by themselves then they wouldn't have been lowered so much, but we had the inspection process so we can lower them more.

You can’t just keep making the same point about inspections when I’ve already explained that the low standards of helpers aren’t only because requirements are low, we have seen helpers with no posts in feedback & suggestions at all, barely any posts on the forums and discord and a terrible level of English. I still think the requirements are ridiculously low but some of the helpers we’ve got have very low activity.

There's a reason schools do work experience

There’s also a reason why 4 year olds don’t do work experience, you don’t start off by throwing someone into the work. If you’re comparing helper to schools and work experience then you have to agree that schools teach people things before work experience, right?

its just missing a lot of context

I’m sure it is, but it is what we as a community. Can see from the staff team. I think you have to agree that if the community doesn’t like the staff team even if that would only be because they’re missing context that’s not a very positive thing

I feel as though you didn't really read much of what I said.

I feel the same about you

Since this thread is not really about The Staff Team, but basically just bashing on helpers

I’m not sure where you got that from, since it’s just not true

Be aware, though, there's a small part of the community that really expects you to make no mistakes from day one!

I’m, once again, not expecting anyone to be perfect. I’m simply expecting helpers to be able to communicate in an understandable way, to actually help people instead of blindly following the rules without looking at context, and to not make the most basic mistakes ever.

The fact that the the feeling of being an actual community is slowly fading is pretty sad, no events, no community games, barely any community talks, the forums is dying and the people who remain on the server barely know eachother except in lobby 1 etc. OG people could actually be a good start to solve this.

This ^ a big part of the staff team just feels like a group of people that are completely separated from the community, no one knows them, no one’s ever seen them, and suddenly they’re staff

Or even get their rank at all?

^ if helper is being compared to a period for learning about cubecraft, how come they already get their rank from day one? You don’t just start out by giving someone a huge amount of responsibility without giving them a certain amount of training. Once again if you’re comparing it to work experience, that’s not the first thing you do on a school either. If they still need to start learning from 0 when they get helper, why don’t you teach them some basics first, then AFTER they’ve had that they get helper to see if they can do it

Anyway, the discussion is just going in circles now, which isn’t what I made this thread for. Instead of selectively picking out the 2-3 sentences you disagree with, why doesn’t anyone respond to the rest, which at least Story apparently agrees with to some extent? I didn’t make this thread so everyone could keep talking about the same 3 sentences they don’t agree with, apparently people agree with some of the problems, and that’s just completely being ignored now…

 

[Goefy]

Ignoring that this statement is pretty exaggerated; this you?:

Why should you make a staff-feedback for such thing that the recruitment can easily solve, that would just be a waste of time.

 

[MrTommy]

After thoroughly reading the suggestion and responses of both sides, I can only come to one conclusion

 

[xHappyMood]

Bump

 

[betty's oldies]

I wanted to comment on this a couple days back, but I wasn't sure until OP bumped the thread.

Why should you make a staff-feedback for such thing that the recruitment can easily solve, that would just be a waste of time.

Because the staff feedback section is private to the public. What if there's others who agree on the same thing? (Why is it that a group of 20 is much stronger than 20 individuals?)

Now for the OP.

View attachment 206843
Anyway, are you saying helpers can be completely separate from the community and don’t have to be involved in it at all?

I just picked that up from the point you were replying too

You can’t just keep making the same point about inspections when I’ve already explained that the low standards of helpers aren’t only because requirements are low, we have seen helpers with no posts in feedback & suggestions at all, barely any posts on the forums and discord and a terrible level of English. I still think the requirements are ridiculously low but some of the helpers we’ve got have very low activity.

I have a few questions/concerns for you, OP.

• Not all staff (including me when I was staff on another server almost 5 years ago) use the forums. Some staff may specialize in other areas.
• Are you certain that you've checked these helpers such that they've at least done something prior to promotion?
• Do you know how job interviews work (at least on the candidate side)? Why are the requirements ostensibly set "low"?
  • However, I agree that the lack of professionalism is a red flag. Even just ONE simple English mistake on an application is enough to have that thrown in the trash.
• Helpers are at the bottom of the totem pole. How much impact do they have if they make a mistake or two compared to an admin who is at the top of the totem pole?

I will now address the other replies below.

1. I'd argue that these are qualities Admins should have, not moderators. Most of your complaints are poor English and inconsistent information, so I'm not sure where knowledge of the community comes into that.

You can't keep making the same point about the minimum requirements being too low when I've already explained that every single member who passes minimum requirements gets a manual inspection from 12 different experienced team members. The point is irrelevant now.

If the requirements entirely decided who gets on by themselves then they wouldn't have been lowered so much, but we had the inspection process so we can lower them more.

They could logically get removed but the only issue is that we'd need to manually inspect every application and we couldn't weed out people who made their account the same day they applied.


2. They absolutely do not. It's a trial process, as I already explained.

Helpers learn more in 4 weeks through experience than they do in 8 months as a community member. There's a reason schools do work experience and why workplaces want experienced workers, because studying only gets you so far before you need to step into such a role.

I'd argue that a member can only truly learn 65% of a Mods full knowledge at the most, Helper gets them way further before putting them into the role.

I've split this into two sections addressed below.

1. Please consider getting automated application screening if you don't have this already. Also, inconsistent information is related to knowledge. There's already basic knowledge (rules, games, Discord, etc.) of the community that candidates should know and be tested on during the interview stage(s). Do you want to accept someone who clearly doesn't know their stuff?
   
   
2. Schools do not give work experience. Apply for any technical job and it's very clear that schools teach only the tip of the iceberg -- the rest is on your own to learn. When a job asks for work experience, they mean experience given on previous relevant jobs or internships. (Why is it that jobs nowadays require Bachelor's degree with work experience or a Master's/PhD degree without experience?)
   
   Now back on the helper topic, you're right that they learn much more on the job than outside the job.

1. I disagree. Having low requirements does not mean that we accept less skilled helpers. It's just making the entry level lower, so that people do not have to grind for months in order to meet requirements. The recruitment team is still very careful with accepting applicants and they're still doing thorough research on all considering applicants.

The requirements were lowered, as the recruitment team kept getting feedback that the helper trial wasn't enough of a trial. By accepting more applicants, you also increase the risk of more mistakes and demotes. Most of the helpers still pass the trial, so I feel like its effective.


2. I can be 1000% certain about my answer and still be incorrect about it. If you want all of our staff-help answers to be correct, then its going to take longer before you get an answer, which is not affective imo. The staff team is also human and can make mistakes. 9/10 times our mentors see their mistakes and we immediately take action upon it, which is barely ever visible to the public.

I don't think these inconsistencies are very bad (I mean, they can be avoided but it's not the end of the world). If it is the same mistake over and over again, then it means it's a systematic fault. Something should change on our end in that case. If a mistake only happens once, then that's not a systematic fault and it's not really something you can change. You can write down an entire list of Q&A's for helpers so they always have the right answer near them, but then they won't think about anything themselves. Mistakes will happen regardless of any change.

1. I don't have much say on this as I've not interviewed candidates yet.
   
   
2. Do you have a repository that contains documentation on staff protocol, rules, etc.? This should be one of the first things that new staff are directed to on the first day.

EDIT: Added additional reply.

 

[xHappyMood]

Not all staff (including me when I was staff on another server almost 5 years ago) use the forums. Some staff may specialize in other areas.

That is true, but I would still expect some overall activity in game, on the discord and on the forums

Are you certain that you've checked these helpers such that they've at least done something prior to promotion?

What do you mean?

Why are the requirements ostensibly set "low"?

I don’t mind low requirements but everyone who joins cube for 5 minutes every day for 2 months can get those bedrock requirements, they’re just too low. I know not everyone who meets the requirements gets accepted, but I don’t see a reason why they should be this ridiculously low

Helpers are at the bottom of the totem pole. How much impact do they have if they make a mistake or two compared to an admin who is at the top of the totem pole?

Enough impact if they (for example) tell you something isn’t punishable, you do it, then get banned because it actually was punishable or if they tell you not to appeal because you actually cheated (which means you miss out on your chance of potentially getting unbanned after a few months)

 

[betty's oldies]

What do you mean?

What contributions have they made prior to joining as helpers?

I don’t mind low requirements but everyone who joins cube for 5 minutes every day for 2 months can get those bedrock requirements, they’re just too low. I know not everyone who meets the requirements gets accepted, but I don’t see a reason why they should be this ridiculously low

What happens if you set the requirements too high?

Enough impact if they (for example) tell you something isn’t punishable, you do it, then get banned because it actually was punishable or if they tell you not to appeal because you actually cheated (which means you miss out on your chance of potentially getting unbanned after a few months)

Off-topic: I was falsely warned by a then-helper for necroposting despite posting within the deadline. I was also told to "understand and deal with the outcome," but because I had hard evidence in the form of timestamps, that warning was lifted. I understand your example.

On-topic: You suggested a more proper helper training, and that is something I wholeheartedly agree on. Some more feedback below.

Why is it that they give incorrect information?

 

[xHappyMood]

What contributions have they made prior to joining as helpers?

Well eh probably farming reports? xD

What happens if you set the requirements too high?

They should obviously not be too high but there's smth in between too high and this

Why is it that they give incorrect information?

No idea, but I imagine it is because they either don't know the answer or don't think before answering

 

[Goefy]

Well, after the last few disastrous helper waves you can not convince me that the system you use for helpers is the right system.

 

[Wulfiee]

Well, after the last few disastrous helper waves you can not convince me that the system you use for helpers is the right system.

Did any of the helpers from the past 2 waves got promoted?