Bedrock UPDATED: Revert and fix the old kb system

[Awabbatt]

just get used to it youll like it more

 

[DarkStray]

I still dont understand why you want the old buggy kb back

Again read the title of the post. And the voting options. How many times do I have to state this when I already made it obvious enough?

sometimes you hit a person and they fly a million blocks, or they dont take any kb at all.

Launching people was a very rare occurrence. Then KB sliding was a bug, again why it should be re-voted on

It resulted in people losing world records just because there was no kb

Mine and toby’s 1:29 perfect% on duo egg was unbeated for months despite so many people going for it. Our run was uneffected by this. We don’t ever grind for runs either.

hIt tHiS pErSON oNCe aND tHeRe is A 50% ThEY WilL tAkE kb And 50% ThEy woNt HaHHa HaHHAl

Not when it’s unbugged, again read title

he people who are complaining are pc nons who are afraid games are going to get harder cuz they will be matched against pc

This is about Kb not ibmm. And I’m not on pc.

I respect your opinion, people will always have different opinions so sorry if I looked rude but I couldnt beileve people liked the old kb lol

i liked the old KB not the bugged one, the actual KB that it was meant to be.
Eventually the new kb is going to get the sprint reset bug again just like the old one did at one point before. And bridge canceling due to the new KB, no idea how that happens but it just did. Same with people still taking reduced kb near edges because they get sucked into the ground sometimes tok.

 

[xcanadiaa]

You were the first person to complain about the old knockback.
Now you're the first person to complain about the new knockback.

I'm sure they could add knockback thats amazing and everyone loves it but you would find a way to somehow want it changed.

The majority like the new knockback.
I have a feeling your issue lies more with platform based matchmaking than knockback itself.

Maybe your problem could be facing people on the same platform as you? and not having "easy games" against mobile players?
Just a thought.

i can agree with that

 

[DarkStray]

going to be working on organizing the post to ignore some things that people keep reading over and to make more sense, will update with the title and another reply

If you want to add anything quote this, I will look at it. I’m not looking at this is as a 1 sided view and I understand how some people like this KB

When I made this post the main influence on it was the community without spreading it to people I knew. I wanted to keep it unassociated with servers I had a big “influence” in to keep all opinions open and not one sided. Eventually others started posting this in there own discords (For their own followers to vote on it) giving it less of an opinion view and more of a focused one.

 

[DarkStray]

Cubecraft’s Knockback

Please re-work and revert to the old Knockback system, this system has been used for years on cubecraft bedrock. It was meant to be based on java, but as we know there was many bugs.



Why the KB is Bad (old)

- KB Sliding (Randomized - Common)
- Absurd KB (Randomized - Very Rare)
- Downwards KB (Randomized - Rare)



Why it is Good (old)

- Was less ping based (still favored lower ping)
- Easier to understand (No Bugs)
- Allowed Players to react
- Gives players a chance to fight back
- Strafing and Accuracy used more



Why it is Bad (new)

- Bridge Canceling (I noticed this a lot in KB test, no idea how it works)
- Vertical KB (Favors lower ping in “combos”)
- Does not allow players to fight back (High ground sucks, your a block further away in the air)
- Once in a combo you can’t really escape because your stuck in the air (harder with higher ping)
- Ping throttling or Zpinging is even more OP (ZPing Definition)
- CPS based



Why it is Good (new)

- Consistent KB
- Feels nice air lock comboing
- Mostly unbugged



Why I Believe it Should Be Reverted

- Many players do not like vertical KB
- It is less ping based (It does still favors lower ping, but not as much)
- When UNBUGGED the KB feels a lot more fair
- Air lock combo’s don’t exist
- To combo it involves strafing and accuracy, rather than the first 3 hit combo
- CPS Affects the new KB a lot more than before
- I would believe many Win10 players use trackpad
- I played cube to avoid Hive’s KB even though I had better ping on Hive
- On the new KB it’s a lot harder for mobile players to play, the average mobile. Giving a sweatier mobile or an Input abuser a lot larger advantage
- Looting on a controller / Mobile GUI and getting hit gives you no chance to fight back (I noticed in KB test how many people bum rushed and knocked people off when looting, due to air locking)
- Ping Throttling / ZPinging is not as broken
- Horizontal KB > Vertical KB
- Doesn’t make as much sense to use new KB in eggwars, MinerWare, Lucky Islands. (Where the game is supposed to be more loot based than voiding, SG I can see tho with new KB)

Updated this part of the post

What do I Mean by This?

Ping is something based on where you are compared by the server location.
CubeCraft, I understand is not a triple A game developer, they are cubecraft. So I understand why they don’t have 8 regional servers.

This does not change the fact that cubecraft only has 1 Server, making something more biased on Ping shouldn’t be added to the server. I know I and many other players live with 100+ ping and can’t change that.

Telling people to get “Better Wifi” I find completely stupid, cubecraft has 1 server based in France, I live on the West Coast of the United States, I would believe many others would too.

How Does Ping Affect the KB More?
- Ping = ms, so 100Ping = 100ms. This meaning when getting combo’d your player is delayed on the server side by .1 second, this doesn’t seem like much until you realize an EU player is delayed on server side by 0.02 seconds, or your actions take 5x longer than theirs.

- Getting air lock combos is easier if you have lower ping. SEE ABOVE, meaning if you are .1 seconds closer to an EU player server side they are .1 closer to you. Does this not make sense? Let’s say you and an EU player move at the same time, if you(100ms) and the EU(20ms) player press the button at the same time (like right when the clock hit’s X:00) the U.S player will start and finish .08 seconds after the EU player on THE EU player’s screen. And you will finish .12(or it’s 0.08 again, but I believe it’s .12) seconds faster on YOUR screen. Meaning they are further from you, while they will be closer to you

Correct me if I’m doing my math wrong^

Added reasons to why the new KB is more ping based

Why the KB is Bad (old)

Why it is Good (old)

Why it is Bad (new)

Why it is Good (new)

Added reasons to why both KB’s are good and bad

- I am working on more to why it should be reverted and fixed and will update with another reply later

 

[Nxrn]

I personally think that the new kb is amazing. If someone complains then they should just get good at the game smh. Why do you think people make fun of cubecraft? Cause it caters towards the bad players. This new kb is a step forward imo. And you mentioned that one problem was ping, so why complain about the kb when you could complain about not having regional servers?

 

[DarkStray]

Why do you think people make fun of cubecraft? Cause it caters towards the bad players. This new kb is a step forward imo

Lol no, the nons combo, specifically the EU ones

And you mentioned that one problem was ping, so why complain about the kb when you could complain about not having regional servers?

That would make it worse? If there is a US server it would be US East, currently US east gets around 100 ping and I get around 180, meaning from 3-8PM my time I’m going against mostly US players
100Ping
180Ping
To make this simple let’s say mine is 200
These other US East players send information twice as fast compared to me, to make it simple they ping the server twice by the time I can ping it once
If we added US east servers they would get 20, and comparing it to other featured servers I would get around 100
What’s that mean?
They ping the server around 5 times when I can only do it once, creating the same problem I have with the EU players ;)

 

[zMigi_]

I don't think the knockback should be changed to the old version,
I would agree to make future changes to make it easier to play but to return it to the exact same way it was before is probably not gonna happen

 

[davimm02]

Cubecraft’s Knockback

Please re-work and revert to the old Knockback system, this system has been used for years on cubecraft bedrock. It was meant to be based on java, but as we know there was many bugs.



Why the KB is Bad (old)

- KB Sliding (Randomized - Common)
- Absurd KB (Randomized - Very Rare)
- Downwards KB (Randomized - Rare)



Why it is Good (old)

- Was less ping based (still favored lower ping)
- Easier to understand (No Bugs)
- Allowed Players to react
- Gives players a chance to fight back
- Strafing and Accuracy used more



Why it is Bad (new)

- Bridge Canceling (I noticed this a lot in KB test, no idea how it works)
- Vertical KB (Favors lower ping in “combos”)
- Does not allow players to fight back (High ground sucks, your a block further away in the air)
- Once in a combo you can’t really escape because your stuck in the air (harder with higher ping)
- Ping throttling or Zpinging is even more OP (ZPing Definition)
- CPS based



Why it is Good (new)

- Consistent KB
- Feels nice air lock comboing
- Mostly unbugged



Why I Believe it Should Be Reverted

- Many players do not like vertical KB
- It is less ping based (It does still favors lower ping, but not as much)
- When UNBUGGED the KB feels a lot more fair
- Air lock combo’s don’t exist
- To combo it involves strafing and accuracy, rather than the first 3 hit combo
- CPS Affects the new KB a lot more than before
- I would believe many Win10 players use trackpad
- I played cube to avoid Hive’s KB even though I had better ping on Hive
- On the new KB it’s a lot harder for mobile players to play, the average mobile. Giving a sweatier mobile or an Input abuser a lot larger advantage
- Looting on a controller / Mobile GUI and getting hit gives you no chance to fight back (I noticed in KB test how many people bum rushed and knocked people off when looting, due to air locking)
- Ping Throttling / ZPinging is not as broken
- Horizontal KB > Vertical KB
- Doesn’t make as much sense to use new KB in eggwars, MinerWare, Lucky Islands. (Where the game is supposed to be more loot based than voiding, SG I can see tho with new KB)
- It was set up to lose, cube conpared a bugged KB system to a mostly unbugged one

Spoiler: Why Ping Is An Issue

What do I Mean by This?

Ping is something based on where you are compared by the server location.
CubeCraft, I understand is not a triple A game developer, they are cubecraft. So I understand why they don’t have 8 regional servers.

This does not change the fact that cubecraft only has 1 Server, making something more biased on Ping shouldn’t be added to the server. I know I and many other players live with 100+ ping and can’t change that.

Telling people to get “Better Wifi” I find completely stupid, cubecraft has 1 server based in France, I live on the West Coast of the United States, I would believe many others would too.

How Does Ping Affect the KB More?
- Ping = ms, so 100Ping = 100ms. This meaning when getting combo’d your player is delayed on the server side by .1 second, this doesn’t seem like much until you realize an EU player is delayed on server side by 0.02 seconds, or your actions take 5x longer than theirs.

- Getting air lock combos is easier if you have lower ping. SEE ABOVE, meaning if you are .1 seconds closer to an EU player server side they are .1 closer to you. Does this not make sense? Let’s say you and an EU player move at the same time, if you(100ms) and the EU(20ms) player press the button at the same time (like right when the clock hit’s X:00) the U.S player will start and finish .08 seconds after the EU player on THE EU player’s screen. And you will finish .12(or it’s 0.08 again, but I believe it’s .12) seconds faster on YOUR screen. Meaning they are further from you, while they will be closer to you

Correct me if I’m doing my math wrong^

Spoiler: Why Ping Is An Issue

Spoiler: Other Info On Ping

United States = 3.8Million Square Miles
France = 250,000 Square miles

Center of Britian - Center of France: 715 miles
Center of U.S - Center of France: 4779 miles

My location - New York: 2400 Miles
My location - France: 5200 Miles
My location - US Central: 1300 miles

The United states is so much larger, adding a US server doesn’t change much unless they add multiple servers to make ir fair. They aren’t EA they aren’t going to make like 10 servers for each region.
But less base my ping off of EA servers

My ping to EA servers
My location - US Oregon: 0 Miles ~ 26 Ping
My location - US Virginia: 2317 Miles ~ 98 Ping
My Location - Japan: 4790 miles~ 143 Ping
My Location - UK: 4720 Miles ~ 158 Ping
My Location - Ireland: 4600 Miles ~ 165 Ping
My Location - Australia: 8047 Miles ~ 170 Ping
My location - Germany: 5218 Miles ~ 174 Ping
My Location - Brazil: 5775 Miles ~ 199 Ping

​

​

​

Spoiler: Old Post

Spoiler: Videos of unbroken old KB system

Spoiler: Videos of broken KB system

go to 30:30 you can see the other players sliding across the ground

I play on 180 Ping on cubecraft and have had 180 since I started playing. A year ago when I started playing cubecraft everything seemed fine, except block teleporting(placing a block and you getting pushed out of it), eating bug, excessive hackers, and no voting for eggwars.

I started playing minecraft a lot more on mobile, over my xbox. Just because I only had a few hours on my xbox a day, and I liked waiting until 8pm to get on fortnite with my friends.

This new knockback is too much like The Hives kb system and it’s horrible. I hated the hive ever since it came out (As a Mobile player keep in mind)

I loved cubecraft as a mobile player and bought the eggwars rank the day it came out, i remember loading up mc in the middle of lunch at school one day and told my friend “yo bro get on Theres an eggwars rank and Imma buy it” or something like this. This was before IOS had support for controller.

One of my favorite moments from cube as a mobile was block trapping a hacker on forest because he was using a macro with his friend.

I eventually slowly moved to xbox because we were getting more work in classes and my friends had more homework than me, everything felt fine on the server for a while.

Eventually minecraft made an update on xbox that just ruined the frames and input delay... this was long before 1.16.200 released and happened around april 2020 meaning we can’t downgrade even if we had the option to...

So around that same time I bought Minecraft on my Laptop, because I liked Eggwars and was very close to leaderboards on EggWars Duos.. I was fine playing on controller, I didnMt buy win10 for any advantage at all but for the frames and horrible input lag. Although those have decreased by a lot since then they are still nearly unbearable to play on..

Spoiler: Watch a video on xbox input lag here

Spoiler: Watch video on an Xbox 1X from a month ago

Spoiler: This video includes visual swearing

BUT DARK THIS IS ABOUT KB NOT YOUR CONSOLE SMH
Well you are correct, but imagine this.
You’ve been playing cubecraft for over a year now, you’ve gone through so many good changes...
Like the Eggwars Rank, the good seasonal events, addition of Modern on your favorite gamemode, you are on your favorite leaderboards.

And there was bad updates too, like eating bugs, block lag, ghost bridging all those got fixed... not by a new system to replace it but they got fixed.

Now imagine something that you played CubeCraft for just get’s removed? What would you do if they reverted to 1.8 or Bedrock healing? The games would become even slower and more boring...
What if they banned you for jump bridging? What would you do then? Would you still want to play cubecraft?

Now, I played CC for the gamemodes, the Healing, and the KB, the kb not as much but compared to hive I would rather play cube if it was down to the kb system.

WHERE DO I GO NOW? I’m stuck with this hot trash KB system now? Just like Hives???? Really?

Well I mean I could go to Mineville I guess but guess what, the servers are buggy, Imm xbox can’t use chat to “roleplay” much and then there InPvP minigames are so bugged and inflated with hackers still

I could also go to Mineplex, I do get the best ping there, but the servers are laggy with frequent freeze framing, chunk load errors, and not many fun gamemodes anymore.

Theres also lifeboat, I use to play lifeboat when I first played mobile. But guess what? Nothing was really changed the servers feel like they are still being ran before cross play was added, and it’s kind of pay to play.

Galaxite? Nah man theres like 2 gamemodes and the connection is weird.

So why cubecraft? Why do you need to build an entire new KB system? It was completely randomized yes, but why not base the new kb off of it? i hate upwards kb, even as a mobile and Imm not great at mobile. Even as an xbox player, and Imm pretty good at xbox. Even if I could play win10, I still wouldn’t play it thats what I avoid because it’s completely ping and cps based. I live on the WEST COAST United States, not many minecraft servers are hosted here because it would be stupid. A poor decision to do that, East Coast makes sense because it’s closer to UTC.

Even if the server was hosted in US EAST I would get 80ping, not bad but compared to a lot of other players I would be getting garbage ping

“Just get better wifi”
To that I just say, “your stupid” your honestly stupid, telling someone to get better wifi is like telling someone “just buy a house” “just buy a pc” “just buy a car”
Guess what a lot of people honestly can’t do that, and wait oh, that’s odd I got pretty good wifi, it’s a lot better than some peoples and is prob above average compared to others around me.

For Oregon the Average download speed is 26, I get 36 download 18upload, I don’t have bad wifi...

“Just get keyboard and mouse on xbox”
No sir, I enjoy standing up while playing on my xbox, and sitting fown on pc, mostly because my tv is at eye level when standing, the top is prob around 6 feet or close to 6 feet off the ground....
sitting down would cramp my neck, my desk is too small to fit my tv on the lower part of it.

Spoiler: Comparing Hive to Cube and saying why Hive is doing so well

Hive does well not because of it’s pvp, but because of how many gamemodes they have. Because hey if I mained hive I would have so many gamemodes to chose from, some that are more Casual like Murder Mystery and Build Battles, or stuff more Conpetitive like SkyWars or Survival Games

Hive has a place for mobile players to play, that is much more casual, same with not just mobiles but any casual player

Wheras cubecraft only has SkyBlock... MinerWare? Nah man theres so many pvp modes in there it’s not casual at all much.

Spoiler: Explaining how the new kb is not skill

“Combo pvp” = first person to get a hit
“Sliding kb” = easy to trade even if you suck, meaning if you combo someone it takes a lot more skill
Unbugged normal kb = slight advantage for low pinging players

Air combo pvp = lower pinging players get a larger disadvantage. Because people can’t touch the ground

The unbroken kb: allowed players to have a chance to react before getting hit again, the could run around because the Kb launched people backwards and not upwards

Combo pvp favors people with low ping and higher cps meaning it’s less skilled based because I can easily get a 9cps macro and not get banned cause sentinel doesn’t look at cps

Old cube kb: if you knew how to strafe correctly you could hit combos and launch players(not the bugged kb I’m talking aboutt 9months ago when it worked) it was easier to trade even if you had higher ping, and I found myself trading with some EU players and winning. Hitting someone doesn’t launch them into the air giving the other player time to react.

Example: if you have high ping and looting a chest and you get hit with **upwards KB** what are you going to do? Nothing that’s right because your locked into an air combo!! YAY FUN right?

Now if you get hit with **backwards KB** you can exit the chest before the 2nd/3rd hit and be able to trade and fairly pvp someone

​

​

I super agree, i created an account just to say how i hate the new kb, the combos are omega op and you cant defend against it, and i struggle now cuz im from brazil and then the ping be bad. I loved old pvp and never complained about ir in my opinion it was perfect and now i created this to say how i dislike the new pvp combat in all ways

 

[Wave Master7S]

So you want the disgusting, broken, inconsistent, randomized, unfair knockback again? And to add to that buggy knockback.

 

[jakeexdee]

So you want the disgusting, broken, inconsistent, randomized, unfair knockback again? And to add to that buggy knockback.

lmao, tbh this knock back is inconsistent also, it’s been proven, and well if you play it it just clearly is. I get between 5-13 ping usually, and even for me it’s still not perfect, the combos are better, but it’s still inconsistent lol, some people fly 18384 blocks, others tend to go nowhere, it’s very weird. If you’re a pc player, the new kb is probably better, console and mobile, maybe not so much. The matchmaking was designed to sort this issue but the thing is, one, it doesn’t always seem to work, and two, the only person I tend to play with is mobile, and I am either pc/console depending on the mood. So then we have myself and a mobile player in the pc lobbies, or vice versa. Sometimes it feels like it doesn’t work at all, I queued solo eggwars 6 times yesterday and in every game there was a mix of mobile, console and pc players. The consistency of the matchmaking is more of an issue than the kb in my opinion, it only needs a few adjustments to be fine, but at the minute, at least to me and a few others, it feels very inconsistent

nice one

 

[davimm02]

lmao, tbh this knock back is inconsistent also, it’s been proven, and well if you play it it just clearly is. I get between 5-13 ping usually, and even for me it’s still not perfect, the combos are better, but it’s still inconsistent lol, some people fly 18384 blocks, others tend to go nowhere, it’s very weird. If you’re a pc player, the new kb is probably better, console and mobile, maybe not so much. The matchmaking was designed to sort this issue but the thing is, one, it doesn’t always seem to work, and two, the only person I tend to play with is mobile, and I am either pc/console depending on the mood. So then we have myself and a mobile player in the pc lobbies, or vice versa. Sometimes it feels like it doesn’t work at all, I queued solo eggwars 6 times yesterday and in every game there was a mix of mobile, console and pc players. The consistency of the matchmaking is more of an issue than the kb in my opinion, it only needs a few adjustments to be fine, but at the minute, at least to me and a few others, it feels very inconsistent

nice one

im from xbox and i dont feel the impact of playing with keyboard people, im better with console than my friend in pc for example, but the new knockback its throwing me off, many times i just get obliterated from the island and dont get a chance to do nothing. I loved old pvp never saw it as buggy, it was more skill based and with it i had some amazing games of 6 kills in solo or 9 kills in duos. Now with this knockback i just can't play. i will stop playing cubecraft until they change knockback, cuz i can't handle the unfairness

 

[funkemunky]

The United states is so much larger, adding a US server doesn’t change much unless they add multiple servers to make ir fair. They aren’t EA they aren’t going to make like 10 servers for each region.

Well while we probably won't go to the length of having 10 servers per region, it's a work in progress.

---

I'm a little biased since I'm the one who worked on the knockback system. However, I understand the frustration of getting rocked by someone who knows how to work the new kb system.

In regards to your latency advantage concern, latency in Bedrock has a huge effect on who wins no matter the knockback system. If you have high enough latency, you'll be five blocks away from the other player on their screen no matter what when you get them in that spot. It's much more noticeable than it is on Java Edition, in which part has to do with some mechanics being only confirmed on the server side and some only on the client side.

In regards to the suggestion to revert it, probably not the best way to go about it. It would be wise to just take in the concerns of the player-base and adjust it based on feedback and more internal testing.

---

I'm going to lock this thread but we'll definitely discuss everyone's concerns within the team.