Full 1.9 PvP (includes proof why this server isn't currently completely 1.9 PvP)

[betty's oldies]

Spoiler: Note

This thread is a hybrid suggestion and explanation. I thought earlier that it was best to combine both the theory behind this server's PvP compared to regular survival combat and a suggestion into 1 thread. This thread will suggest to re-add the armor penetration mechanic to this server from vanilla mechanics.

I suspect that the armor penetration mechanic was purposely disabled at the time 1.9 was released. If this is intended, then this suggestion is a stand-alone suggestion (with theory added). If not, then this suggestion is also a bug report. I couldn't find a way to mash game mechanics, a "bug," and a suggestion in 1 sub-forums. (Copied and pasted from post #15 of this thread)

For reference, we'll use the official MineCraft wiki. The armor page can be found here:
http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Armor

Theory
You're familiar that armor reduces damage. In 1.8, this was simply done with the following formula:

damage taken = (1 - 0.04*defensePoints) * damage

Where defensePoints is the number of armor points you have, damage is the initial damage you take, and damage taken is how much damage you take after armor calculation. This is the formula the server currently uses (carried from 1.8).

In 1.9.2 and above, the following formula is used (taken from the wiki):

damage taken = damage * ( 1 - min( 20, max( defensePoints / 5, defensePoints - damage / ( 2 + toughness / 4 ) ) ) / 25 )

Where toughness is a value (only given by diamond armor). By default, toughness is +0 from armor pieces.

The following example proves that this server is using 1.8 damage calculation. This clip starts with damage calculation in regular survival and then shows damage calculation in CubeCraft.

A diamond sword was used against zombie (has 2 natural armor) for the test. We see here and refer to the table found in the wiki. Taken from the table, the attack therefore deals 6.89 damage per hit in the survival world, meaning the zombie dies in 3 hits. Compare this to CubeCraft, it takes 4 hits to kill the same zombie with the same sword. Using the old formula, each attack deals 6.44 damage per hit on the server. It takes a minimum of 6.67 damage per hit to kill the zombie in 3 hits, proving that this server is using old mechanics.

(If I can verify that enchant EPFs are consistent unlike 1.8's (i.e. damage is consistently reduced in 1.9 instead of variable in 1.8), then I'll add it here).

Now comes the suggestion given this theory.

Suggestion
Almost a year ago, this server stated it was going to become fully 1.9 compatible. Unfortunately, this isn't the case. Why not we include armor penetration to fit more like 1.9 PvP? This mechanic doesn't and wouldn't apply to the 1.8 side of the server, only to 1.9+. Optionally, since diamond armor was rebalanced in 1.9.2 (reason toughness is exclusive to diamond armor only), it allows armor to be balanced out more than it is in 1.9.0. As with 1.8, diamond armor should effectively give 2 times the amount of HP as iron (in 1.8, effectively 100HP with diamond armor, 50HP with iron). Due to the new damage formula, the effective HP varies.

This does a few things:
-Fights will be a lot shorter. Currently, in OP eggwars for example, fights take way too long. Fights take a lot longer because of attack cooldown, regular damage calculation, and high protection enchants.
-Further encourages players to use the axe over a sword in some cases. In 1.8, the sword was always the option over the axe made out of the same material. In 1.9, the axe should penetrate more armor, but because armor penetration is disabled, axes are much weaker than they should be.
-Encourages players to go for critical hits. Risky, but in return, the attacker can deal significantly more damage under the 1.9.2+ damage formula.
-Diamond armor is still just as durable as it should be compared to that in 1.8.

I didn't suggest to update to 1.11 (the server can, but this means all other mechanics such as hunger change). This thread suggests to add ONLY the armor penetration mechanic at the least.

In short, 2 suggestions:
-Include the armor penetration mechanic (new damage formula) in 1.9+ PvP.
-(Optional): To rebalance armor, the server requires 1.9.2 at the minimum.

 

[SpankMeSanta]

Really good thread. 1.9.2 really improves the PvP compared to 1.9.0 believe it or not, also the hunger in 1.9 compared to 1.11 runs out too quickly, so it would also improve survival games as you don't lose hunger every 3 seconds.

 

[betty's oldies]

Really good thread. 1.9.2 really improves the PvP compared to 1.9.0 believe it or not, also the hunger in 1.9 compared to 1.11 runs out too quickly, so it would also improve survival games as you don't lose hunger every 3 seconds.

If it's completely updated to 1.11, then shields may become an issue. Not OP, but it forces the attacker to get fire or an axe to disable them. Hunger runs out faster in 1.11 if you regenerate HP, but all other activities cost less hunger.

 

[skps2010]

I thought penetration mechanic is in 1.9.2 until now.
So I keep using axe for pvp. :eek:

Server really need to upgrade to 1.9.2

 

[SpankMeSanta]

If it's completely updated to 1.11, then shields may become an issue. Not OP, but it forces the attacker to get fire or an axe to disable them. Hunger runs out faster in 1.11 if you regenerate HP, but all other activities cost less hunger.

If you have full health in 1.9 and 1.11, your hunger will run out much faster in 1.9 is what I meant. Also axe disabling shields will be a useful tactic and a worthy buy in eggwars, where you just use your axe to disable their shield and you can bow them.

 

[Despacito 2]

I voted yes just because I like it.

 

[SirFly]

1+

 

[Power Ranger]

I never noticed this for some reason... Probably because I'm not a big axe user and that's where this comes into effect the most. I really don't know how I didn't notice this as I play so much vanilla pvp... Definitely want this added to buff axes a bit more :P

 

[agent320]

tip 1 armor point is 3.3 defense points...

 

[CommunistCactus]

Also don't forget the "sweep" hat the sword is supposed to do in 1.9, but not on cube.
(sweep being hitting multiple targets with a sword if they are close enough)

 

[betty's oldies]

Poll has been fixed. You can now vote for 2 of the questions on the poll. Sweep is in Cube, but because targets are so spread out, sweep doesn't come into play.

 

[Chimpeeze]

Also don't forget the "sweep" hat the sword is supposed to do in 1.9, but not on cube.
(sweep being hitting multiple targets with a sword if they are close enough)

Sweep works fine on cube.

 

[CommunistCactus]

Sweep works fine on cube.

Last time I checked it didn't.....
I'll check it again and try to record it.

 

[betty's oldies]

If you have full health in 1.9 and 1.11, your hunger will run out much faster in 1.9 is what I meant. Also axe disabling shields will be a useful tactic and a worthy buy in eggwars, where you just use your axe to disable their shield and you can bow them.

Assuming you can get into melee range and dodge their arrows, yes. Fire-based weapons and potions soft-counter shields since fire aspect enchants go through the shield. Fire and lava force the user to unblock and look for water or take extra damage.

As for hunger in 1.9, that's correct for all activities except for sprinting (same), regen (increased), walking (no cost), and sneaking (no cost).

@skps2010: Armor penetration was introduced in 1.9.0 but was changed slightly in 1.9.2 to take the rebalanced diamond armor into account. Without any diamond armor pieces, the formula is the same as in 1.9.0.

 

[betty's oldies]

Guess I'll tag @Tacosbefriends and see what his opinion is about this disabled feature.

I suspect that the armor penetration mechanic was purposely disabled at the time 1.9 was released. If this is intended, then this suggestion is a stand-alone suggestion (with theory added). If not, then this suggestion is also a bug report. I couldn't find a way to mash game mechanics, a "bug," and a suggestion in 1 sub-forums.

 

[Unipotato]

1+

Please don't post one word (Things like +1, k, etc.) as it is considered necroposting, which isn't allowed on the forums. Thanks!

 

[Thaus]

pls do.
Finally, I can actually enjoy OP more.

 

[Tacosbefriends]

Compare this to CubeCraft, it takes 4 hits to kill the same zombie with the same sword

What game/server are you running your zombie-killing test in?

 

[betty's oldies]

What game/server are you running your zombie-killing test in?

First 30 seconds: Single player world.
Remainder of the video: This server (freebuild).

I've also seen in FFA that using the warrior kit against another warrior kit (so sharpness 2 diamond sword with critical hits against standard diamond armor) deals only 2.4 damage (shows 1 heart particle). The table shows that it should deal 5.28 damage (should show 2 heart particles). I'll record this this weekend when I'm on my gaming PC.

Sharpness doesn't benefit from crits; only the base damage does.

@agent320: Armor is 4% per point (changed back from 3.3% in the snapshots).

 

[SirFly]

Please don't post one word (Things like +1, k, etc.) as it is considered necroposting, which isn't allowed on the forums. Thanks!

Shut up your not a mod lol