More 1.8 pvp gamemodes [Added poll]

[SlipperyEJ]

No, they prefer 1.9 on this server because they have nowhere else to fricking go, you arrogant brat.

chill... there are many servers that do 1.9 you just have to look for them... all im saying is that a bigger audience would be attracted by 1.8. Give your argument too why 1.9 is better than 1.8

 

[logicalpencils]

You don't think that I've looked for 1.9+ servers? I've found literally 2 living non-SMP servers over the course of 19 months, and one of them's Cube.

Why would anyone want to play on Cubecraft's half-effort 1.8 when they can go on Bad, Hyp, Hive, Brawl, etc. for more gamemodes and better server performance? Cubecraft's 1.8 would die faster than Mineplex is.

I've given my arguments for why 1.12 is better only about a thousand times just on this thread. The game is balanced much better than in 1.8, and as for attack cooldowns, it's miles better than the cookie-clicker system from before.

 

[SlipperyEJ]

You don't think that I've looked for 1.9+ servers? I've found literally 2 living non-SMP servers over the course of 19 months, and one of them's Cube.

Why would anyone want to play on Cubecraft's half-effort 1.8 when they can go on Bad, Hyp, Hive, Brawl, etc. for more gamemodes and better server performance? Cubecraft's 1.8 would die faster than Mineplex is.

I've given my arguments for why 1.12 is better only about a thousand times just on this thread. The game is balanced much better than in 1.8, and as for attack cooldowns, it's miles better than the cookie-clicker system from before.

Becuase it has unique gamemodes...


You have no idea what your talking about do you

 

[logicalpencils]

*you're

Until the Island Games came out a week ago (and they aren't even technically unique, either), Cubecraft has had one unique pvp gamemode: Blockwars, which is an extremely unpopular game compared to the other ones on the server. Yea that'll roll in the players.

 

[SlipperyEJ]

*you're

Until the Island Games came out a week ago (and they aren't even technically unique, either), Cubecraft has had one unique pvp gamemode: Blockwars, which is an extremely unpopular game compared to the other ones on the server. Yea that'll roll in the players.

Well now theres island games lol. Block wars isnt popular because its extremely boring to play with it taking 5 seconds to kill someone...

 

[logicalpencils]

Blockwars isn't popular because it's extremely boring to play with it taking 5 seconds to break blocks, and you can't add more blocks mid-game unless you're Miner.

As for "5 seconds to kill", let's take some comparative examples. Most people in Blockwars have leather armor; I think the most-armored kit is like... 9 armor points? And I'm pretty sure the strongest weapon is a stone sword (except the tnt, which is stronger in 1.9+ simply due to the armor nerf). Before getting into it, some ground rules:

• Time to kill is recorded as the absolute minimum amount of time that a player can take in order to deal fatal damage to a full-health enemy with a given weapon.
• The timer for "time to kill" starts upon the first hit landing.
• It is assumed that no regen will occur; it would only change optimal "time to kill" by .5 seconds, in any case.
• "All crits" will only be considered for 1.9+ because you lose time in 1.8 by trying to do all crits over simply jitterclicking.

So, to kill a person in full leather w/ chain chestplate (9 Armor):
1.8: Wood Sword - 3s to kill; Wood w/ 1 Crit - 2.5s; Stone Sword - 2.5s; Stone w/ 1 Crit - 2.5s.
1.9+: Wood Sword - 3.75s; Wood w/ 1 Crit - 3.6s; Wood All Crits - 2.4s; Stone Sword - 3.25s; Stone w/ 1 Crit - 2.5s; Stone All Crits - 1.75s.

To kill someone in full leather (7 Armor):
1.8: Wood Sword - 2.5s; Wood w/ 1 Crit - 2.5s; Stone Sword - 2s; Stone w/ 1 Crit - 2s.
1.9+: Wood Sword - 3.75s; Wood w/ 1 Crit - 3.1s; Wood All Crits - 2s; Stone Sword - 2.5s; Stone w/ 1 Crit - 2.4s; Stone All Crits - 1.75s.

Of course, these being "optimal" situations, most of the time battles will take a few seconds longer. But demonstrably, the amount of time to kill between the versions are within a second of each other, with 1.9+ becoming faster as you consider crit combos that are more viable in 1.9+.

What you're probably referring to with your "5 seconds to kill someone" statement is the fact that 1.9+ punishes bad aim by making you have to wait to strike again. A little less-than-optimal aiming in 1.8 is usually pretty meaningless to the fight as a whole; 1.9+ puts much more emphasis on having consistent aim and timing, because one miss usually adds about another half-second to your time-to-kill timer, and gives an opening to the enemy to combo you.

Of course, if it isn't your bad aim, it could be that you or the enemy are lagging really bad, which is why Cubecraft is a pretty awful place to get a good look at 1.9+ combat, honestly -- it has awful server performance (in my personal experience at least). It would also be very beneficial if Mojang added more features to aid in pvp consistency such as a vanilla anti-cheat and lag compensation. But I digress.

 

[Jorn_N]

yeah there has to be more

 

[SlipperyEJ]

Blockwars isn't popular because it's extremely boring to play with it taking 5 seconds to break blocks, and you can't add more blocks mid-game unless you're Miner.

As for "5 seconds to kill", let's take some comparative examples. Most people in Blockwars have leather armor; I think the most-armored kit is like... 9 armor points? And I'm pretty sure the strongest weapon is a stone sword (except the tnt, which is stronger in 1.9+ simply due to the armor nerf). Before getting into it, some ground rules:

• Time to kill is recorded as the absolute minimum amount of time that a player can take in order to deal fatal damage to a full-health enemy with a given weapon.
• The timer for "time to kill" starts upon the first hit landing.
• It is assumed that no regen will occur; it would only change optimal "time to kill" by .5 seconds, in any case.
• "All crits" will only be considered for 1.9+ because you lose time in 1.8 by trying to do all crits over simply jitterclicking.

So, to kill a person in full leather w/ chain chestplate (9 Armor):
1.8: Wood Sword - 3.5s to kill; Wood w/ 1 Crit - 3s; Stone Sword - 3s; Stone w/ 1 Crit - 2.5s.
1.9+: Wood Sword - 3.75s; Wood w/ 1 Crit - 3.6s; Wood All Crits - 2.4s; Stone Sword - 3.25s; Stone w/ 1 Crit - 2.5s; Stone All Crits - 1.75s.

To kill someone in full leather (7 Armor):
1.8: Wood Sword - 3s; Wood w/ 1 Crit - 3s; Stone Sword - 2.5s; Stone w/ 1 Crit - 2.5s.
1.9+: Wood Sword - 3.75s; Wood w/ 1 Crit - 3.1s; Wood All Crits - 2s; Stone Sword - 2.5s; Stone w/ 1 Crit - 2.4s; Stone All Crits - 1.75s.

Of course, these being "optimal" situations, most of the time battles will take a few seconds longer. But demonstrably, the amount of time to kill between the versions are within a second of each other, with 1.9+ becoming faster as you consider crit combos that are more viable in 1.9+.

What you're probably referring to with your "5 seconds to kill someone" statement is the fact that 1.9+ punishes bad aim by making you have to wait to strike again. A little less-than-optimal aiming in 1.8 is usually pretty meaningless to the fight as a whole; 1.9+ puts much more emphasis on having consistent aim and timing, because one miss usually adds about another half-second to your time-to-kill timer, and gives an opening to the enemy to combo you.

Of course, if it isn't your bad aim, it could be that you or the enemy are lagging really bad, which is why Cubecraft is a pretty awful place to get a good look at 1.9+ combat, honestly -- it has awful server performance (in my personal experience at least). It would also be very beneficial if Mojang added more features to aid in pvp consistency such as a vanilla anti-cheat and lag compensation. But I digress.

hmm still 1.8 is better

 

[logicalpencils]

hmm still 1.9+ requires more skill to do well, each attack is meaningful, and each hit has a physicality to it.

 

[SlipperyEJ]

hmm still 1.9+ requires more skill to do well, each attack is meaningful, and each hit has a physicality to it.

Not as fun still. Think of it this way. I dont agree with 1.9 being more skillful for reason ill mention, but even if you want to believe that, It really doesnt matter because something can require more skill but unnecessary complicated. Ok so 1.8 has

• Jitter clicking
• Butterfly clicking
• Strafing
• Combos
• Rods
• Snowball tactic
• W-tap
• S-tap
• All the main yters (Not a strategy but still)

Thats what 1.8 strategys are and heres what 1.9 tactics are

• Timed hits
• Strafing
• W-taping
• S-Tapping

No combos arnt in 1.9 unless your a god at it.


Edit:Also blockhitting for 1.8

 

[logicalpencils]

First of all, I just did some more testing, and I must apologize for some inaccurate calculations concerning the "time to kill" in 1.8. As it turns out, all weapons in 1.8 do 1 more damage than stated. So for example, a diamond sword says +7 damage; but this is added to the fist's damage, making the diamond sword actually do 8 damage. I have edited my 1.8 times accordingly.

Not as fun still. Think of it this way. I dont agree with 1.9 being more skillful for reason ill mention, but even if you want to believe that, It really doesnt matter because something can require more skill but unnecessary complicated. Ok so 1.8 has

• Jitter clicking
• Butterfly clicking
• Strafing
• Combos
• Rods
• Snowball tactic
• W-tap
• S-tap
• All the main yters (Not a strategy but still)

Thats what 1.8 strategys are and heres what 1.9 tactics are

• Timed hits
• Strafing
• W-taping
• S-Tapping

No combos arnt in 1.9 unless your a god at it.

Jitter and butterfly are just two different methods to do the same thing - which is "click really fast". Ooooh, wow what an amazing skill that should be central to combat.

RODS DON'T DO KB IN VANILLA; IT'S A PLUGIN THAT YOU CAN HAVE IN 1.9+ JUST AS WELL AS 1.7-1.8

And being able to pull with rods in 1.9+ is itself a skill to utilize.

If by "snowball tactic" you mean "toss a bunch of crap at someone to do kb", you can still do that in 1.9+.

"Combos aren't in 1.9+ unless you're really good at it" well no duh, Sherlock. Jitter-clicking isn't a thing in 1.7-1.8 either unless you're "really good at it". That doesn't mean there aren't combos - it means you should get better at the freaking game.

So let's take a look at that list again:

• Clicking fast (jitter, butterfly, blockhitting)
• Strafing
• Combos (ez)
• Rods (kb w/ plugin)
• Snowballs
• W-tap/S-tap
• Hotkey

V.S.

• Timed hits
• Strafing
• Combos (if you're good)
• Rods (pull w/o plugin, kb w/ plugin)
• Snowballs
• W-tap/S-tap
• Hotkey/Offhand management
• Shield usage

And just for good measure, some other attributes of 1.8 vs 1.12:

• Fat hitboxes
• Janky kb
• Strength I OP (dia sword does 18.4 damage!)
• Prot IV OP

V.S.

• Slim hitboxes
• Consistent kb
• Balanced Strength/Weak pot, Armor, Protection, and Sharpness
• 4 versions worth of performance improvements
• 4 versions worth of mapmaking, building, redstone, survival, and other improvements.

 

[SlipperyEJ]

First of all, I just did some more testing, and I must apologize for some inaccurate calculations concerning the "time to kill" in 1.8. As it turns out, all weapons in 1.8 do 1 more damage than stated. So for example, a diamond sword says +7 damage; but this is added to the fist's damage, making the diamond sword actually do 8 damage. I have edited my 1.8 times accordingly.



Jitter and butterfly are just two different methods to do the same thing - which is "click really fast". Ooooh, wow what an amazing skill that should be central to combat.

RODS DON'T DO KB IN VANILLA; IT'S A PLUGIN THAT YOU CAN HAVE IN 1.9+ JUST AS WELL AS 1.7-1.8

And being able to pull with rods in 1.9+ is itself a skill to utilize.

If by "snowball tactic" you mean "toss a bunch of crap at someone to do kb", you can still do that in 1.9+.

"Combos aren't in 1.9+ unless you're really good at it" well no duh, Sherlock. Jitter-clicking isn't a thing in 1.7-1.8 either unless you're "really good at it". That doesn't mean there aren't combos - it means you should get better at the freaking game.

So let's take a look at that list again:

• Clicking fast (jitter, butterfly, blockhitting)
• Strafing
• Combos (ez)
• Rods (kb w/ plugin)
• Snowballs
• W-tap/S-tap
• Hotkey

V.S.

• Timed hits
• Strafing
• Combos (if you're good)
• Rods (pull w/o plugin, kb w/ plugin)
• Snowballs
• W-tap/S-tap
• Hotkey/Offhand management
• Shield usage

And just for good measure, some other attributes of 1.8 vs 1.12:

• Fat hitboxes
• Janky kb
• Strength I OP (dia sword does 18.4 damage!)
• Prot IV OP

V.S.

• Slim hitboxes
• Consistent kb
• Balanced Strength/Weak pot, Armor, Protection, and Sharpness
• 4 versions worth of performance improvements
• 4 versions worth of mapmaking, building, redstone, survival, and other improvements.

Its not the center of pvp lol

I know they dont do kb but they do freeze the target

Unless you are a god at 1.9 pvp you cant combo. Snowballs dont help in 1.9 pvp. Hotkeys are also in 1.8. Shields are stupid.

The slim hitboxes mess with hit reg and make it crappy. Kb is good in 1.7 and fine in 1.8. Just like axes with strength 1 lol.Of course its good.

Makes hit reg crap

kb is not consistent at all.
No
Its a lot laggy for me tbh.
True but doesnt effect pvp

 

[logicalpencils]

RODS DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO PLAYERS - NO DAMAGE, NO KB, NO STALLING. THEY LITERALLY GO RIGHT THROUGH.

You have to be good to combo in 1.9+, not "godlike". Git gud. Snowballs do the same thing in 1.9+ as in 1.8; sure they help. I did point out hotkey in 1.8. Blockhitting is stupid.

Slim hitboxes don't "mess with hit reg" noob - they make you have to actually aim at the player's body to hit them instead of nicking their elbow. Fat hitboxes increases the effect of hitbox stretching, which actually is crappy and messy hit reg. KB in 1.7/1.8 is anywhere from 3.8 to 4.5 blocks from a sprint-hit on an unmoving target, which is inconsistent and ludicrously far.

The strongest axe in 1.9+ does 12 damage with Strength I, 15 damage with Strength II. A wooden sword in 1.8- does 11.5 damage with Strength I, and 18 damage with Strength II.

KB in 1.9+ is 2 blocks from normal hit, 3.5 from sprint-hit. Subsequent sprint-hits do 2 blocks unless you w-tap. It's pretty darn consistent.

Have you ever played 1.9+ on a server other than Cubecraft? Because yes Cube is crap for performance.

 

[SlipperyEJ]

RODS DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO PLAYERS - NO DAMAGE, NO KB, NO STALLING. THEY LITERALLY GO RIGHT THROUGH.

You have to be good to combo in 1.9+, not "godlike". Git gud. Snowballs do the same thing in 1.9+ as in 1.8; sure they help. I did point out hotkey in 1.8. Blockhitting is stupid.

Slim hitboxes don't "mess with hit reg" noob - they make you have to actually aim at the player's body to hit them instead of nicking their elbow. Fat hitboxes increases the effect of hitbox stretching, which actually is crappy and messy hit reg. KB in 1.7/1.8 is anywhere from 3.8 to 4.5 blocks from a sprint-hit on an unmoving target, which is inconsistent and ludicrously far.

The strongest axe in 1.9+ does 12 damage with Strength I, 15 damage with Strength II. A wooden sword in 1.8- does 11.5 damage with Strength I, and 18 damage with Strength II.

KB in 1.9+ is 2 blocks from normal hit, 3.5 from sprint-hit. Subsequent sprint-hits do 2 blocks unless you w-tap. It's pretty darn consistent.

Have you ever played 1.9+ on a server other than Cubecraft? Because yes Cube is crap for performance.

Thats False I have tested it lol.

Opinion. since you cant combo in 1.9 with anything besides a wooden sword theres no point. Snowballs imitate the effect of a rod .

It does mess with hit reg because you have to aim exactly on the player and since theres a cooldown its stupid. If anything it should be the other way around. Kb should be randomized a little bit tbh.

Well i didnt know that lol

Exactly cubecraft 1.9 perfomance is crap so they should try out 1.8

 

[logicalpencils]

I have tested it on a vanilla server I made from scratch - rods do nothing at all.

If you can combo with a wood sword, you can combo with any other sword - they all swing at the same speed, noob. It's not my "opinion" whether you can combo in 1.9+. Snowballs imitate rod... even in 1.9+... your point?

So you're saying Mojang should make aiming really easy? No I like skill in my game.

No Cube is garbage in any version.

 

[SlipperyEJ]

I have tested it on a vanilla server I made from scratch - rods do nothing at all.

If you can combo with a wood sword, you can combo with any other sword - they all swing at the same speed, noob. It's not my "opinion" whether you can combo in 1.9+. Snowballs imitate rod... even in 1.9+... your point?

So you're saying Mojang should make aiming really easy? No I like skill in my game.

No Cube is garbage in any version.

In 1.8?

No wooden swords dont have a cooldown as slow as diamond swords. Because theres a cooldown you cant straight line anymore making rods useless.

lol

Then why are you on the forums.

 

[logicalpencils]

Yes, in 1.8.9. And 1.7.10. Rods do nothing.

Are you joking? All swords have an attack speed of 1.6 (.62s cooldown). Have you ever played on 1.9+?

You know there's more uses for ranged kb tools than breaking out of a straightline, right?

Wasn't your whole argument "1.8 is more skill"? Because you seem to be conceding that point. Not really worthy of a "lol".

I'm on the forums because at least Cubecraft is trying; Island Games are great, too.

 

[SlipperyEJ]

Yes, in 1.8.9. And 1.7.10. Rods do nothing.

Are you joking? All swords have an attack speed of 1.6 (.62s cooldown). Have you ever played on 1.9+?

You know there's more uses for ranged kb tools than breaking out of a straightline, right?

Wasn't your whole argument "1.8 is more skill"? Because you seem to be conceding that point. Not really worthy of a "lol".

I'm on the forums because at least Cubecraft is trying; Island Games are great, too.

Im testing it rn

Apparently...

Island games is fun but I would prefer 1.8 in it

 

[SlipperyEJ]

Ok I get people have different opinions here but im ganna say mine for like the 5th time

1.9 is so much more boring than 1.8/1.7. Being restricted to .1 cps or whatever is such a step down from 1.8. What strategys are there? Strafe and hit every 10 seconds? So much skill. Compared to comboing straightlining blockhitting rod tactics snow balling and others. Its just stupid. 1.9ers call it smarter and more skillful but thats totally not the case. Way more pvpers still play 1.8 for obvious reasons. Look at badlion for example no one plays 1.9 because its so boring clicking once every second and fights lasting minutes. Plus there are almost 0 1.9 pvpers because its extremely boring to watch and play. Half of the 1.9 community is modders and redston designers.

 

[logicalpencils]

How many times do I have to say it before you stop exaggerating your arguments? It's 1.6 cps for swords in 1.9+. End of story. How many times have I had to explain to you that you can hit about twice a second, effectively the same as in 1.8? You just don't have to click all the time in between.

I've already gone thoroughly through how your examples of extra "skills" in 1.8 are based off of plugins or bugs, or else are present in 1.9+ and often require more skill to execute effectively?

"Fights lasting minutes" says the guy who showed an 8-minute potpvp match as the prime example of 1.8 combat.

I'll tell you the "obvious reasons" why people still play 1.8 and why there aren't many 1.9+ places to play:

1. Servers can't use 1.9+ mechanics in any form without losing the 1.8 playerbase, whereas 1.9+ people are generally willing to play with different kinds of combat. In short, 1.8 people are more close-minded.
2. 1.8 people have never actually played 1.9 with any intention other than to find problems with it that aren't there, if they ever played it at all (it's a bit difficult to play 1.9+ combat when no big server has ever attempted supporting it). In short, 1.8 people are close-minded.
3. 1.8 people don't like that they can't do everything in exactly the same way that they used to, and whine at any nerf to the game, regardless of the benefits it brings. In short, 1.8 people are close-minded.
4. 1.8 people assume that 1.8 pvp is more interesting and exciting because you are pressing more buttons per second, without ever having taken the effort to get good at 1.9+ pvp and see how it feels at high level. In short, 1.8 people are close-minded, and servers have suffered because of it.