Implemented The debounce modification / double clicking rule

[TheDarkSavage]

What is your point? If you are more skilled, you have an advantage over other players (I know, so surprising)

Yes, that's what I said. Doubleclicking is a skill, and learning a skill shouldn't be banned.

Double clicking is different, it barely involves any skill.

Not true. Doubeclicking does take some effort and practice to be able to use consistently for high cps.

Also, the fact that pc players already have an advantage over mobile players doesn't mean that we should give them more advantage, it should be the other way around.

But there's no reason to ban it for that sole purpose, since there are many other ways that pc players already have an advantage over mobile players.

I get that double clicking =/= macroing, but many people can't double click because they are not on kbm, or even me with my $2 mouse. We shouldn't give 1% of the community an advantage.

Many people have trash computers and can't get high FPS, should we ban people from using expensive setups or limit the fps people are allowed to get? There's a massive difference between 10 or even 30 fps and 1000+, and the literally only barrier between those two is money, whereas double-clicking does at least have some skill requirement (more than getting high fps at least)

when you started talking about skill and comparing speed bridging to double clicking, you're telling me that a player who bought a double clicking mouse such as the model o like OP himself only for the purpose of cheating (double clicking) is indeed fair against someone playing on a phone.

No, I'm saying that pitting a pc player against someone on a phone is incredibly unfair, wether double-clicking is allowed or not, and therefore that is a horrible reason to ban double-clicking.

you also mentioned using a fire key and getting 3 clicks is not the same thing as clicking once and getting 3 clicks, however it's the mouse itself that is the macro.

Incorrect. A macro is when you get artificially created outputs from one mechanical input. A double-click has two mechanical inputs (the mouse button bounces down, up, down, and up again; two full clicks), even though it may only require one 'slap' of the finger on the mouse button to achieve it. The mouse is not artificially or digitally fabricating inputs; the inputs are there.

a double click is a click that is doubled, its one legit click followed by a not legit one.

A 'legit click' would be when the mouse button bounces far enough to reach the threshold of registering a click, caused by a human hitting the mouse button. How then is the second click illegitimate? There is a real, measurable bounce in that second click.

you also mentioned that you yourself lower your debounce to intentionally get more double clicks, aka cheating.

No. I remove the artificial barrier stopping me from reaching my legitimate human limit. It's no different than buying a better computer, keyboard, or mouse to allow me to play better.

You also completely failed to respond to the fact that there are mouses that come with a default debounce time of 1ms, and therefore do not require this so-called 'illegal modification' (it isn't, but ok) to allow double clicking. If you're using that mouse, then apparently you're cheating because of the way you tapped your finger on the mouse button!

changing debounce time in software such as model o users is an unfair advantage against everyone including pc players because normal mice that arent designed for double clicking do not have a debouce setting.

Most 'standard' mice have no debounce time at all; the reason they can't double-click is because the hardware itself kinda sucks and is too clunky

buying a model o is not skill, its an unfair advantage.

A model o is just something you can buy off of amazon. Learning to double-click is a skill. Properly learning/demonstrating that skill requires certain hardware, just like demonstrating any proficiency at the game requires certain hardware. Many people don't have the ability to run Minecraft on their device, is that an unfair advantage? Should we cap fps at 10 for everyone using the server? After all, having high fps is an advantage, and one that can only be achieved via spending money.

It's not always black and white. There is no legitimate reason for double-clicking to be banned on Cubecraft, and it is incredibly unfair and possibly even hypocritical of the server to have this rule in place.

 

[Landon AWESOME9]

Yes, that's what I said. Doubleclicking is a skill, and learning a skill shouldn't be banned.

Not true. Doubeclicking does take some effort and practice to be able to use consistently for high cps.

Double clicking takes absolutely no skill at all, try clicking 20 cps legitly on a mouse that doesn't double click

 

[TheDarkSavage]

Double clicking takes absolutely no skill at all, try clicking 20 cps legitly on a mouse that doesn't double click

Do you have any idea how to double click? Learning to double click definitely takes practice and time. No, it's not an incredibly hard skill to learn, but it takes time and practice to master nonetheless, especially for use in PvP/Bridging/general gameplay. And yes, it takes a mouse that is able to double click, but that doesn't change that it is a skill that must be learned

 

[Landon AWESOME9]

Do you have any idea how to double click? Learning to double click definitely takes practice and time. No, it's not an incredibly hard skill to learn, but it takes time and practice to master nonetheless, especially for use in PvP/Bridging/general gameplay. And yes, it takes a mouse that is able to double click, but that doesn't change that it is a skill that must be learned

yes, last week I used a model o for the first time. took me about 30 seconds to "learn" how to double click and consistently get doubles. The way I did it? I stopped trying to butterfly faster, and it took less effort and less skill to get double clicks than actual cps.

 

[TheDarkSavage]

yes, last week I used a model o for the first time. took me about 30 seconds to "learn" how to double click and consistently get doubles. The way I did it? I stopped trying to butterfly faster, and it took less effort and less skill to get double clicks than actual cps.

Ok cool, so you don't know much about double clicking. Double clicking is something you do in addition to something like butterflying, not as a replacement. I can normal click using double clicks at around 11-12 CPS, I can normal click at around 10-11, and I can butterfly at around 12. What I use in actual gameplay is butterflying while double clicking, which gets me around 15-18 CPS (yes, I'm aware these numbers are much lower than others). Double clicking isn't just some hack to double your CPS, it takes some level of skill (albeit not a high level at all) and is a legitimate way of increasing your existing CPS as an add-on to your current clicking method.

You also keep calling double clicks not "actual CPS", yet CPS definitionally means "clicks per second", with a "click" of a mouse being the bouncing of a mouse button down beyond the mark to be counted as a click and then returning to normal. A double click, as I have already explained, is a single 'hit' of the mouse button by a finger that causes the mouse button to bounce down, up, down, and up again, for a total of two legitimate clicks.

 

[Awabbatt]

Not true. Doubeclicking does take some effort and practice to be able to use consistently for high cps.

Still, they shouldn't allow something which most of the bedrock community can't do (Pretty sure less than 50% are on pc)

Yes, technically speaking more fps is a slight advantage, but it is so small of an advantage that people are more annoyed over it because it makes gameplay not fun rather than it being an advantage.

Double clicking, on the other hand, is a WAY bigger advantage. I mean, it's literally in the name .

Honestly, do you think that a person who gets 120 fps and 8cps can beat a person who gets 60fps and doubles 16cps? Obviously, no.

Also, input-based matchmaking barely happens. If a controller goes against a pc who doubles they basically have no chance.

As people said before, why not make hacked clients allowed? Everyone on pc can download them, and for controller players? there is "iNpUt BaSeD mAtChMaKiNg!42%@51@4"

 

[Felinesheep1982]

Ok cool, so you don't know much about double clicking. Double clicking is something you do in addition to something like butterflying, not as a replacement. I can normal click using double clicks at around 11-12 CPS, I can normal click at around 10-11, and I can butterfly at around 12. What I use in actual gameplay is butterflying while double clicking, which gets me around 15-18 CPS (yes, I'm aware these numbers are much lower than others). Double clicking isn't just some hack to double your CPS, it takes some level of skill (albeit not a high level at all) and is a legitimate way of increasing your existing CPS as an add-on to your current clicking method.

You also keep calling double clicks not "actual CPS", yet CPS definitionally means "clicks per second", with a "click" of a mouse being the bouncing of a mouse button down beyond the mark to be counted as a click and then returning to normal. A double click, as I have already explained, is a single 'hit' of the mouse button by a finger that causes the mouse button to bounce down, up, down, and up again, for a total of two legitimate clicks.

again, 1 legit click = 1 legit click, not 2.

 

[TheDarkSavage]

again, 1 legit click = 1 legit click, not 2.

Did you completely miss the part where I defined a "legit click"? You can't keep throwing around these terms without defining them. A 'legit click' is the action of the mouse button bouncing down far enough to be registered as a click, and then returning to the normal state, with the action be caused by human input.

Under that definition, double clicking produces 2 'legit clicks'.

Still, they shouldn't allow something which most of the bedrock community can't do (Pretty sure less than 50% are on pc)

Yes, technically speaking more fps is a slight advantage, but it is so small of an advantage that people are more annoyed over it because it makes gameplay not fun rather than it being an advantage.

FPS isn't the only advantage. What about ping? The only way to get better ping is to either spend money on a better internet connection or to literally move across the world to be closer to the server hosting site. Doesn't that then give people from certain continents or good financial situations unfair advantages? Should we artificially impose a delay of 500ms on everyone to make it fair?

Double clicking, on the other hand, is a WAY bigger advantage. I mean, it's literally in the name .

Honestly, do you think that a person who gets 120 fps and 8cps can beat a person who gets 60fps and doubles 16cps? Obviously, no.

I'm a 1.8 PvP main, where (as 1.9 players like to say) 'cps is all that matters'. CPS does not mean literally anything. High cps players can get completely destroyed easily by a low cps player whose just better. It's really not an incredible advantage

CPS isn't even useful for 1.9 PvP. Where is the insane advantage coming in at? Bridging? Speedbridging can easily be done with 0CPS and just holding down the right click; I did this myself for quite a long time. Any other bridging methods except ninja bridging are impractical and not an actual advantage. Where then is the massive advantage coming from?

No matter the version you're playing in, CPS is pretty irrelevant to deciding the outcome of a game

Also, input-based matchmaking barely happens. If a controller goes against a pc who doubles they basically have no chance.

This is a horrible argument. You massively overestimate the advantage double clicking gives, as I just explained. In addition, realistically speaking, a mobile or even console player usually gets destroyed by any competent pc player; simply having a mouse and keyboard usually a massive advantage already; whether you double click doesn't matter

As people said before, why not make hacked clients allowed? Everyone on pc can download them, and for controller players? there is "iNpUt BaSeD mAtChMaKiNg!42%@51@4"

You keep arguing against the idea that input based matchmaking exists. Please point out to me even one time where I said it exists? I literally have never used that as an argument.

In addition, hacked clients are illegal modifications of the game that give a massive advantage. Double clicking is a method of tapping your finger against the mouse to optimize CPS. Yes, hardware built for it is required, but there's nothing wrong with that since it gives no unfair advantage.


Having double clicking banned is a completely hypocritical thing for Cubecraft to have done

 

[Landon AWESOME9]

Did you completely miss the part where I defined a "legit click"? You can't keep throwing around these terms without defining them. A 'legit click' is the action of the mouse button bouncing down far enough to be registered as a click, and then returning to the normal state, with the action be caused by human input.

Under that definition, double clicking produces 2 'legit clicks'.



FPS isn't the only advantage. What about ping? The only way to get better ping is to either spend money on a better internet connection or to literally move across the world to be closer to the server hosting site. Doesn't that then give people from certain continents or good financial situations unfair advantages? Should we artificially impose a delay of 500ms on everyone to make it fair?



I'm a 1.8 PvP main, where (as 1.9 players like to say) 'cps is all that matters'. CPS does not mean literally anything. High cps players can get completely destroyed easily by a low cps player whose just better. It's really not an incredible advantage

CPS isn't even useful for 1.9 PvP. Where is the insane advantage coming in at? Bridging? Speedbridging can easily be done with 0CPS and just holding down the right click; I did this myself for quite a long time. Any other bridging methods except ninja bridging are impractical and not an actual advantage. Where then is the massive advantage coming from?

No matter the version you're playing in, CPS is pretty irrelevant to deciding the outcome of a game



This is a horrible argument. You massively overestimate the advantage double clicking gives, as I just explained. In addition, realistically speaking, a mobile or even console player usually gets destroyed by any competent pc player; simply having a mouse and keyboard usually a massive advantage already; whether you double click doesn't matter



You keep arguing against the idea that input based matchmaking exists. Please point out to me even one time where I said it exists? I literally have never used that as an argument.

In addition, hacked clients are illegal modifications of the game that give a massive advantage. Double clicking is a method of tapping your finger against the mouse to optimize CPS. Yes, hardware built for it is required, but there's nothing wrong with that since it gives no unfair advantage.


Having double clicking banned is a completely hypocritical thing for Cubecraft to have done

you keep defining a legit click as the mechanical switch bouncing back and forth, which is where debounce plays it's role. We are defining it as a single click resulting from your finger pressing the button once. Pressing the button once and getting 2, 3 or 4 clicks are all non legit clicks.

And again, you keep mentioning that you need the required hardware, should cc make it's game pay to win?

 

[Awabbatt]

In addition, hacked clients are illegal modifications of the game that give a massive advantage.

In addition, double clicking is something that more than 50% of players are not able to do, which gives a massive advantage.

This is a horrible argument. You massively overestimate the advantage double clicking gives, as I just explained. In addition, realistically speaking, a mobile or even console player usually gets destroyed by any competent pc player; simply having a mouse and keyboard usually a massive advantage already; whether you double click doesn't matter

Again, PC players already have a massive advantage. You want to give them more of it?

Having double clicking banned is a completely hypocritical thing for Cubecraft to have done

This is probably the best thing cubecraft has done in a while, it actually gives a chance for controller/mobile players instead of being obliterated by 18 cps double clickers.

Did you completely miss the part where I defined a "legit click"? You can't keep throwing around these terms without defining them. A 'legit click' is the action of the mouse button bouncing down far enough to be registered as a click, and then returning to the normal state, with the action be caused by human input.

Macro = I press the button once, 2 outputs happen
Double clicking = I press the button with my finger ONCE, 2 outputs happen

Spoiler

I don't care wether it bounced up and down, you still presed it with your finger once. Yes, they are different concepts but at the end of the day they give the same result.

Please tell me the difference




Side note: I am talking about bedrock, not 1.9 pvp. Double clicking is way more useful

 

[Felinesheep1982]

Did you completely miss the part where I defined a "legit click"? You can't keep throwing around these terms without defining them. A 'legit click' is the action of the mouse button bouncing down far enough to be registered as a click, and then returning to the normal state, with the action be caused by human input.

Under that definition, double clicking produces 2 'legit clicks'.



FPS isn't the only advantage. What about ping? The only way to get better ping is to either spend money on a better internet connection or to literally move across the world to be closer to the server hosting site. Doesn't that then give people from certain continents or good financial situations unfair advantages? Should we artificially impose a delay of 500ms on everyone to make it fair?



I'm a 1.8 PvP main, where (as 1.9 players like to say) 'cps is all that matters'. CPS does not mean literally anything. High cps players can get completely destroyed easily by a low cps player whose just better. It's really not an incredible advantage

CPS isn't even useful for 1.9 PvP. Where is the insane advantage coming in at? Bridging? Speedbridging can easily be done with 0CPS and just holding down the right click; I did this myself for quite a long time. Any other bridging methods except ninja bridging are impractical and not an actual advantage. Where then is the massive advantage coming from?

No matter the version you're playing in, CPS is pretty irrelevant to deciding the outcome of a game



This is a horrible argument. You massively overestimate the advantage double clicking gives, as I just explained. In addition, realistically speaking, a mobile or even console player usually gets destroyed by any competent pc player; simply having a mouse and keyboard usually a massive advantage already; whether you double click doesn't matter



You keep arguing against the idea that input based matchmaking exists. Please point out to me even one time where I said it exists? I literally have never used that as an argument.

In addition, hacked clients are illegal modifications of the game that give a massive advantage. Double clicking is a method of tapping your finger against the mouse to optimize CPS. Yes, hardware built for it is required, but there's nothing wrong with that since it gives no unfair advantage.


Having double clicking banned is a completely hypocritical thing for Cubecraft to have done

input based matchmaking is one of OPs main points which is a false assumption because anyone playing on the server will say it doesnt exist, no one said you made that false assumption.

 

[Usurper]

Is this argument still happening? Lol. How is it even up for debate? Doubling is WRONG. It's scummy, it's frowned upon by almost every major server, it's hardware abuse and it DOES provide an unfair advantage. I have to develop arthritis just to jitter 13 and some momma's boy can ask his parents for a model O and instantly click 20.

On a sidenote, this is Cubecraft and this argument is directed at the bedrock server. How much of a rat do you need to be to be doubling on controller players and mobiles? They click like 5 cps. Just single butterfly 12 and get over it or switch to a java server that condones doubling. P.S. there aren't many because it's scummy

 

[Awabbatt]

Is this argument still happening? Lol. How is it even up for debate? Doubling is WRONG. It's scummy, it's frowned upon by almost every major server, it's hardware abuse and it DOES provide an unfair advantage. I have to develop arthritis just to jitter 13 and some momma's boy can ask his parents for a model O and instantly click 20.

On a sidenote, this is Cubecraft and this argument is directed at the bedrock server. How much of a rat do you need to be to be doubling on controller players and mobiles? They click like 5 cps. Just single butterfly 12 and get over it or switch to a java server that condones doubling. P.S. there aren't many because it's scummy

Fr. This has to be the best response. They somehow expect Controller/Mobile/People without $500 mice to be okay with basically getting half the cps as other sweaty players.

 

[TheDarkSavage]

1. You can double with mice worth far far less than $500 (cheapest I've done it on is ~$10, I'm sure you can find one you can do it on with less)

2. Double clicking doesn't immediately double your cps; there's a sacrifice that comes with it (unless you are super good at it, which most players who just learned this 'easy' skill are not). I have admittedly low cps, but I've been double clicking for years and go from ~10 to ~15 CPS with and without double clicking (just tested it. Other people's numbers will be different, but I'm a good example of someone who has a lot of practice and is reasonably decent at double clicking but is by no means exceptional)

3. "almost no other servers allow double clicking because it's scummy" - I'm hoping you're not talking about Java here (keep in mind the title of the threads says this change should affect All Networks, not only the bedrock server), because *every* big Java server allows double clicking.


NOTE: Technically every mouse can double click; it's just that some are significantly easier to do it on than others. It is however still true that you can't double click on console or mobile

NOTE 2: It's worth mentioning that I am *mainly* concerned about this rule on Java. I still think that the rule should be removed for Bedrock as well, but my main concern is for Java. There is literally no reason for double clicking to be banned on Java that does not cast Cubecraft in an extraordinarily hypocritical light.

 

[Landon AWESOME9]

1. You can double with mice worth far far less than $500 (cheapest I've done it on is ~$10, I'm sure you can find one you can do it on with less)

2. Double clicking doesn't immediately double your cps; there's a sacrifice that comes with it (unless you are super good at it, which most players who just learned this 'easy' skill are not). I have admittedly low cps, but I've been double clicking for years and go from ~10 to ~15 CPS with and without double clicking (just tested it. Other people's numbers will be different, but I'm a good example of someone who has a lot of practice and is reasonably decent at double clicking but is by no means exceptional)

3. "almost no other servers allow double clicking because it's scummy" - I'm hoping you're not talking about Java here (keep in mind the title of the threads says this change should affect All Networks, not only the bedrock server), because *every* big Java server allows double clicking.


NOTE: Technically every mouse can double click; it's just that some are significantly easier to do it on than others. It is however still true that you can't double click on console or mobile

Not all mice can double click, which seems to be another one of the false assumptions everyone's making. Mice that don't use mechanical switches can not bounce multiple times because there isn't a physical switch to bounce. And good luck getting those doubles on a trigger or a phone!

 

[TheDarkSavage]

Not all mice can double click, which seems to be another one of the false assumptions everyone's making. Mice that don't use mechanical switches can not bounce multiple times because there isn't a physical switch to bounce. And good luck getting those doubles on a trigger or a phone!

It is however still true that you can't double click on console or mobile

 

[Landon AWESOME9]

Oh, so you DO understand that not everyone has this ability, and therefore it is an unfair advantage! Looks like we're done here now.

 

[Usurper]

3. "almost no other servers allow double clicking because it's scummy" - I'm hoping you're not talking about Java here (keep in mind the title of the threads says this change should affect All Networks, not only the bedrock server), because *every* big Java server allows double clicking.

PVP Land
Lunar.gg
MMC

Three of the BIGGEST multiplayer servers all indicate in their rules section "Intentional double clicking can result in a ban"

Hypixel allows it. And even the sweats on Hypickle frown upon it. It's cheese. It's low skill free cps that anyone who chooses to abuse their hardware can do. No skill.

Give me a REPUTABLE java server besides Hypixel or Bridgerland that CONDONES doubling. Condones is different from allows btw


On bedrock,
The Hive
Zeqa
Hyperlands
Cubecraft

They all disallow doubling.

 

[Awabbatt]

1. You can double with mice worth far far less than $500 (cheapest I've done it on is ~$10, I'm sure you can find one you can do it on with less)

Not true. Not all mice can double click. I have 2 mice; one is $5, and the other is $20. I can get doubles regularly on the $5 one using a double click test website. (About 1/10 of the time). On the $20 one though, I clicked 500 and not a single one was a double.

NOTE 2: It's worth mentioning that I am *mainly* concerned about this rule on Java. I still think that the rule should be removed for Bedrock as well, but my main concern is for Java. There is literally no reason for double clicking to be banned on Java that does not cast Cubecraft in an extraordinarily hypocritical light.

I guess I'll copy paste

Not true. Not all mice can double click. I have 2 mice; one is $5, and the other is $20. I can get doubles regularly on the $5 one using a double click test website. (About 1/10 of the time). On the $20 one though, I clicked 500 and not a single one was a double.

 

[DarkStray]

This rule is basically saying your cheating by using different clicking methods or using a software that come SPECIFICALLY with the mouse. I don't know if it's possible to accidentally double-click but if so, then you would get banned by clicking the wrong way on accident, and it doesn't really make sense for getting banned by something you either never did or did by accident. My friend TeachnoDuck got banned today and he might have ACCIDENTALLY double clicked or something. Sorry if this doesn't make sense

I AM SO GLAD PEOPLE GET BANNED FOR SOFTWARE ON THEIR MOUSE

because if they didn't ban for that the software that came with my mouse that has macro's should be allowed!