Implemented The debounce modification / double clicking rule

[RelatedNoobs]

A couple years ago, I hadn’t really invested in a proper setup and I used a regular office mouse to play games. But after it being used continuously, the mouse broke and unintentionally started registering double clicks.

This is not an example of double-clicking, this is a broken mouse. The difference between your office mouse and mice that double click is yours broke and started double-clicking, whereas mice that intentionally double click do this from the beginning. When I first received my model O I was able to start double-clicking the moment I unboxed it. It isn't a hardware malfunction that causes double-clicking - it is an intended feature that is advertised on most gaming mice.

Someone with a mouse that cannot double click has no chance against someone with a mouse that can do so

This is completely false because I don't double-click but do perfectly fine against those who do (whether it be in scrims or on streams or even on different networks such as Hive or Hypixel). Allowing people to double click will not change the PvP as much as some are making it seem. The only difference this will really have is being able to place blocks faster and get a small amount of extra CPS (keep in mind I am only arguing for double-clicking, NOT dragclicking, as this is a totally different topic).

you have to remember that double clicking is not an intended feature of a mouse rather a result of hardware abuse.

It is actually an intended feature. For example, the official website for the Bloody a70 (a popular gaming mouse used throughout the Minecraft community) deliberately advertises the a70 as having a "Click response less than 0.2 ms". This is also seen with the Roccat series mice. Once again marketing it on their website as having "a faster mechanical switch than any other with twice the durability".

If the companies didn't want to allow an "unintended feature that is a result of hardware abuse", they wouldn't market it as "abusable" if that makes any sense. We also see this when they let you change your debounce slider, if they didn't want you to change the filter's strictness, they wouldn't have implemented the slider.

Completely ridiculous to even suggest this.

Thanks.

 

[alienofmars1]

I dont have a gaming mouse or gaming computer Iv always played on pvp servers and never used a macro double clicked butterfly clicked or anything of that sort alot of pc players do but with that being said cubecraft isnt a pvp server its meant for little kids the rule applies for all games on cubecraft. Cubecrafts goal is to be chill and thats why they have the rule me personally I dont really care if they change it or not I think its fine the way it is tho

 

[a random cubecraft player]

*Please read the entire post before voting, as I will be going over supporting arguments*

We will be talking about the rule:

Spoiler: Rule 1.3 Clicking Methods

The use of autoclickers, macros, mapping your click button to your mouse wheel, dragclicking, using multiple mice, or using a mouse that registers double clicks is not allowed. Also modifying your mouse's click function in any way via software or hardware is considered cheating and will result in a cheating ban.

1.3 - Clicking Methods​

What is debounce / double-clicking?

Double-clicking is a method of clicking a mouse that registers multiple inputs per one physical input on a mouse. For example, when you click once, two clicks register in-game rather than one. This is WITHOUT the use of ANY software or macros. How exactly does a double click work? A computer mouse registers a click usually by physical contact. It sends an electrical signal to your computer to register the click. When you click your mouse a certain way though, you can cause a "bouncing effect" where the mouse switches will register more than one electrical signal for a split second after you click your mouse. Some companies have gotten around this phenomenon by implementing a system called the "debounce delay" which will filter out the extra electrical signals. You can change how strict the filter is by modifying the debounce time. The higher it is set to, the more strict the filter.

Players are able to achieve higher CPS through double clicks when they lower the debounce time - reducing the filter's strictness.

The issue

Cubecraft has banned both double-clicking, and debounce modifying. This rule wasn't always around, until ~2 years ago when a player who goes by the name of STASI was suddenly banned for a month because they used "illegal modifications" by changing their debounce time.

Originally, this rule made sense, as Cubecraft had to consider other devices playing on the network (this was before input-based matchmaking), and they didn't want to allow PC players the advantage of using a special mouse feature - which mobile and console players cannot use. Now though, Cubecraft has input-based matchmaking. Players with a computer mouse go against other players with computer mice.

Most argue that "Changing your debounce is essentially using software to achieve higher CPS". This is true that you must use software to change debounce time, but you aren't using "cheating software" that is deliberately designed to exploit. The debounce slider is a feature in ALL SOFTWARE for gaming mice, made BY the company of the gaming mouse - not some third-party hacking client.

I would also like to take a moment to stop and really think about what debounce modifying really is. It is a FILTER to PREVENT clicks from occurring - not a slider to give you MORE clicks. Having your debounce slider at a high-strict setting is more of a handicap rather than a "normal occurrence". The filter itself is stopping legitimate electrical signals from being processed. It is NOT giving you MORE or LESS clicks. (This is not to be confused with a macro, which is software that multiplies a click after the signal is sent).

This argument is slightly weaker than the others, but I would still like to mention it. Nobody in the PvP/scrim community follows the debounce rule. Even new players that join Cubecraft for the first time will most likely have their debounce filter on a low setting. This happened recently with a YouTuber by the name of MontclairBear (147k subs) who uploaded a Cubecraft video for the first time a few days ago. The entire video is about him tellybridging/godbridging on Java 1.18 (godbridging requires a clicking method called dragclicking, which is only possible via a low-passive debounce filter). Unfortunately, I heard he is now banned from Java Cubecraft. Why did he use a low-passive debounce filter in his video in the first place? Because apart from Cubecraft, almost no other big PvP server restricts you from lowering your debounce. Hypixel for example allows debounce modification. Cubecraft is one of the only big PvP servers that prohibit low/passive debounce filtering.

Along with the last paragraph, reporting for double-clicking is practically impossible. Unless you have video evidence of the player's debounce slider at a low setting, there is not going to be enough proof to get someone punished. Players can simply argue that they were jitterclicking, or using another clicking method to achieve their CPS. For this reason too, almost everyone in the PvP community doubles.

Another argument I want to bring is that of "using hardware to give yourself an unfair advantage". If this really means what I think, then this can be generalized to "players are not allowed to use gaming mice on Cubecraft". The double-click phenomenon happens with every gaming mouse switch, this is not something that is only built into highly rare and expensive mice.

For my final argument, I want to go over "double-clicking is abusing your mouse's hardware to give yourself an advantage". Ok. So how is this any different from jitterclicking? If we are talking about a normal computer mouse, anything but normal clicking is technically abusing a mouse. There really is no difference whether you are jittering 18 cps or double-clicking 20 cps. It is all abusing your mouse to achieve more clicks per second in a block video game.

The solution

If Cubecraft is really concerned about high CPS, they should take the initiative themselves to add a CPS cap, not force each player to change a setting on their mouse's official software to filter out more CPS just to play on one server.

Thank you for reading if you've made it this far. Please try to keep an open mind about what I've said, and react to this post. This is also a slightly-heated topic, so, please do not start anything unnecessary.

Thanks.

I don't think that double clicking is legit because when you are double clicking you are not actually physically clicking the cps whereas with jitter normal or single click butterfly you are physically clicking the cps which doesn't make it too different from a macro

 

[Abysss]

I think this is a great post about a relevant issue that I have been heard come up a lot when I play. Being a mobile player myself, it is difficult to go up against pc players that get high cps. At the same time, I can see how it would be difficult for pc players to adjust their settings. I have seen many suggestions of separating different platforms, but I am not a fan of this. I personally enjoy going up against pc players since it helps me to become a better player.

 

[DarkStray]

This is not an example of double-clicking, this is a broken mouse. The difference between your office mouse and mice that double click is yours broke and started double-clicking, whereas mice that intentionally double click do this from the beginning. When I first received my model O I was able to start double-clicking the moment I unboxed it. It isn't a hardware malfunction that causes double-clicking - it is an intended feature that is advertised on most gaming mice.

Mice are not built to double click. it just doesn't make sense, if you MEAT slap your mouse. It will cause a double click
that is NOT how you are meant to use a mouse.
It's a hardware malfunction/limitation that happens after you abuse the mouse, and specifically on lighter mice where they don't reinforce anything on the mouse to keep it lighter.

And in fact, the Model O is NOT advertised as a double clicking mouse, it's advertised as a lightweight and wired with a wireless feel.
Only reviews tell you about the double clicks!
Glorious Model O Website


Even on the Bloody A70, they DO NOT ADVERTISE the mouse as a double clicking mouse, they advertise the mouse as "Light Striking" Which does not mean lightly tapping the mouse, Light Striking is just how fast the mouse would register the click to your desktop.
And on the website it advertises itself with "No Double-Click"
A70 Website


No mice are built to double, some mice are just easier to abuse than others due to features the companies wanted implemented.
Lower Strike times, Lighter mice etc.

This is completely false because I don't double-click but do perfectly fine against those who do (whether it be in scrims or on streams or even on different networks such as Hive or Hypixel). Allowing people to double click will not change the PvP as much as some are making it seem. The only difference this will really have is being able to place blocks faster and get a small amount of extra CPS (keep in mind I am only arguing for double-clicking, NOT dragclicking, as this is a totally different topic).

Double clicks do not bounce on 0MS, so it is a MUCH larger advantage than someone clicking the same CPS as you without doubles

Because doubles will bounce within a certain amount of time, thats how debounce times work.

IF you have a debounce of 10, it means it can't register a multiple clicks within 10ms. But if you double and it bounces at 12ms it still registers the double

If you click lets say 4ms before the IFrame to hit somebody, your double click will then hit them.

It's cheating because YOU are NOT PHYSICALLY causing the double click to happen, you are relying on a malfunctioning mouse side affect due to poor build quality.

It is actually an intended feature. For example, the official website for the Bloody a70 (a popular gaming mouse used throughout the Minecraft community) deliberately advertises the a70 as having a "Click response less than 0.2 ms". This is also seen with the Roccat series mice. Once again marketing it on their website as having "a faster mechanical switch than any other with twice the durability".

That is mouse -> PC
Not debounce
It's the time the mouse takes the click to register on your desktop

Read the highlighted in yellow.

If the companies didn't want to allow an "unintended feature that is a result of hardware abuse", they wouldn't market it as "abusable" if that makes any sense. We also see this when they let you change your debounce slider, if they didn't want you to change the filter's strictness, they wouldn't have implemented the slider.

Neither the Bloody A70 or the Glo9rious Model O advertise the mice as such

Bloody A70, only 2 mentions of the word "Double" on the page, and IT'S ABOUT NO DOUBLE CLICKING

Same with Glorious Model O, the ONLY 2 mentions about double clicks are with Reviews, not the companies that made them.

Don't base your "facts" off of things that are not true.

YES the mice double click
BUT THE COMPANIES did not INTEND for them to be double clicking mice, the "minecraft" community determined this themselves, NOT the companies

I think this is a great post about a relevant issue that I have been heard come up a lot when I play. Being a mobile player myself, it is difficult to go up against pc players that get high cps. At the same time, I can see how it would be difficult for pc players to adjust their settings. I have seen many suggestions of separating different platforms, but I am not a fan of this. I personally enjoy going up against pc players since it helps me to become a better player.

There is Input Based Matchmaking to separate mobiles/pc/controllers

But the point being made is that cheating should be made legit essentially.

 

[RelatedNoobs]

Mice are not built to double click. it just doesn't make sense, if you MEAT slap your mouse. It will cause a double click
that is NOT how you are meant to use a mouse.

You make it sound like you need to pour gasoline on your mouse and light it to cause a double click to happen. You don't "meat slap" your mouse to cause a double click. I can double-click my mouse with extremely gentle taps. Tbh I find jitterclicking more fitting for the "meat slap" term. You are flexing your arm to cause small shaking and use this to tap your mouse. Doesn't it also cause carpel tunnel syndrome or something? Anyways, I'm not here to talk about jitterclicking.

And in fact, the Model O is NOT advertised as a double clicking mouse, it's advertised as a lightweight and wired with a wireless feel.

I never said the Model O was advertised as a double-clicking mouse.

No mice are built to double, some mice are just easier to abuse than others due to features the companies wanted implemented.

Then why would companies give you a debounce slider? If it wasn't built to double, they would simply have the debounce filter set high immediately after the user plugs in the mouse. OR they would upgrade their switches if they were so concerned about it.

It's cheating because YOU are NOT PHYSICALLY causing the double click to happen

But...

if you MEAT slap your mouse. It will cause a double click

...I'm "meat slapping" it am I not?

But the point being made is that cheating should be made legit essentially.

Not cheating. It is using a feature in the mouse's click registration.

 

[DarkStray]

You make it sound like you need to pour gasoline on your mouse and light it to cause a double click to happen. You don't "meat slap" your mouse to cause a double click. I can double-click my mouse with extremely gentle taps. Tbh I find jitterclicking more fitting for the "meat slap" term. You are flexing your arm to cause small shaking and use this to tap your mouse. Doesn't it also cause carpel tunnel syndrome or something? Anyways, I'm not here to talk about jitterclicking.

Meat slapping by lifting your finger off the mouse to then slap it back down on the mouse
(the abusive way to clicking, this is not how rated clicks are calculated)

Spoiler: VIDEO

I never said the Model O was advertised as a double-clicking mouse.

When I first received my model O I was able to start double-clicking the moment I unboxed it. It isn't a hardware malfunction that causes double-clicking - it is an intended feature that is advertised on most gaming mice.

you kinda did
Same with the A70, you even said it was when in fact it never was at all.

Not cheating. It is using a feature in the mouse's click registration.

"feature" yet none of the mice you have given or even said have had "double clicking" in it's feature set.
double clicking is a malfunctioning switch that you abuse by incorrectly pressing your mouses switch.

 

[Hulk_]

I can hopefully provide some insight on this topic as it has been an interesting issue to tackle from our perspective.

Essentially what we are trying to convey is that one physical click should register as one click by your computer. If you've made modifications to your mouse that could cause one physical click to be counted as two, that's what we would consider not allowed. Modifying debounce times will not directly lead to a ban, you will only be banned if you are clicking at a rate considered impossible. We issue this warning as a courtesy as we have seen in the past players who had modified debounce times to be detected for autoclicker as they are able to click at a much higher speed.

Unfortunately I don't foresee that adding a cps cap would solve the autoclicker problem. I would imagine that players would just set their autoclicker to the limit and continue on as normal, and now we have a new issue of everyone clicking at the cps limit.

Realistically we would want to change the logic of our autoclicker check to instead work on a statistical basis, and detect patterns of unusual clicking behavior. This unfortunately is not something that we have explored yet, as autoclickers are a lower priority compared to the other cheats we want to focus on detecting. But, this is definetly something we will look into in the future.

 

[Lavapossum]

The rule was in place WAY before Stasi was ever banned, and the rules even said back then, before any rule change, “or using software to gain an advantage” was banable
This does not specifically state Double Clicking, but to change your Debounce(software) to gain an advantage(higher cps) would be banable.
In addition to the previous rule, it included auto clickers(software) and Macros(software) which would result in an advantage(higher cps).

The new rule just specifically states that double clicking in general is now banable (WHICH IT SHOULD BE)
NO MATTER WHAT MOUSE YOU BUY IT DOES NOT DOUBLE IF USED AS A MOUSE
Abusing your mouse and clicking it in SPECIFIC ways is what causes double clicks, not the mouse itself. Normal clicking(without lifting your finger off the button, just release the pressure) does not double click, even on “double clicking mice”.
Butterfly clicking is an abusive way of clicking, so is Drag Clicking. Both of which use doubles to achieve inhuman amounts of CPS, other ways to achieve that CPS require Macros and Autoclickers, but as stated above those are both Software Advantages and would be banable.


My macro was made by the gaming company.
Can I use those?

Again that’s not how I think, I think in the most realistic way, the people without gaming mice. The people who just buy a mouse and use it the correct way(majoriry of players)

They can’t change the debounce slider unless they downloaded a third party software(which now under your terms is cheating) to gain a CPS advantage


Kind of contradicts what you said previously but okay.

My macro when I press it too, sends multiple electrical signals from my mouse(because my mouse has a computer chip in it, and does not require a program to run macros, just to turn them on/off)
But it isn’t cheating now.

Also CPS = Clicks Per Second.
If I click once I get 1 cps
If I click once and get 3double clicks I am still clicking 1cps, not 4….

It is cheating either way.

And for me, I can’t change debounce time. How can I double click? Please tell.

double clicking itself is bannable. Not changing your debounce time

Now if this was Hive it would make sense, as they require you to play on a minimum 20ms debounce.
But this is cubecraft, all doubles are banable, which are really easy to spot

I explain it well in this video with hit sounds ^


I only agree with this out of everything. Because that is the only thing that makes sense

Incorrect, IBMM does not work all the time
(And that is intentional)

Also not everyone can double click, that is a false narrative. Most people normal click(not lifting a finger off the mouse AKA not MEAT slapping your mouse)

You are double clicking even with 15-18cps go to arealmecps test and look at the graph



“You can just buy a double clicking mouse to double click. Because everyone is on PC and can double click too”

Yea and everyone of those players have a PC, so we can all install autoclcikers and hacked clients too. And they are free! And I don’t have to spend money on that unlike a mouse! This should not be banable to use mods for killaura!

Please use valid logic for thi

The rule was in place WAY before Stasi was ever banned, and the rules even said back then, before any rule change, “or using software to gain an advantage” was banable
This does not specifically state Double Clicking, but to change your Debounce(software) to gain an advantage(higher cps) would be banable.
In addition to the previous rule, it included auto clickers(software) and Macros(software) which would result in an advantage(higher cps).

The new rule just specifically states that double clicking in general is now banable (WHICH IT SHOULD BE)
NO MATTER WHAT MOUSE YOU BUY IT DOES NOT DOUBLE IF USED AS A MOUSE
Abusing your mouse and clicking it in SPECIFIC ways is what causes double clicks, not the mouse itself. Normal clicking(without lifting your finger off the button, just release the pressure) does not double click, even on “double clicking mice”.
Butterfly clicking is an abusive way of clicking, so is Drag Clicking. Both of which use doubles to achieve inhuman amounts of CPS, other ways to achieve that CPS require Macros and Autoclickers, but as stated above those are both Software Advantages and would be banable.


My macro was made by the gaming company.
Can I use those?

Again that’s not how I think, I think in the most realistic way, the people without gaming mice. The people who just buy a mouse and use it the correct way(majoriry of players)

They can’t change the debounce slider unless they downloaded a third party software(which now under your terms is cheating) to gain a CPS advantage


Kind of contradicts what you said previously but okay.

My macro when I press it too, sends multiple electrical signals from my mouse(because my mouse has a computer chip in it, and does not require a program to run macros, just to turn them on/off)
But it isn’t cheating now.

Also CPS = Clicks Per Second.
If I click once I get 1 cps
If I click once and get 3double clicks I am still clicking 1cps, not 4….

It is cheating either way.

And for me, I can’t change debounce time. How can I double click? Please tell.

double clicking itself is bannable. Not changing your debounce time

Now if this was Hive it would make sense, as they require you to play on a minimum 20ms debounce.
But this is cubecraft, all doubles are banable, which are really easy to spot

I explain it well in this video with hit sounds ^


I only agree with this out of everything. Because that is the only thing that makes sense

Incorrect, IBMM does not work all the time
(And that is intentional)

Also not everyone can double click, that is a false narrative. Most people normal click(not lifting a finger off the mouse AKA not MEAT slapping your mouse)

You are double clicking even with 15-18cps go to arealmecps test and look at the graph



“You can just buy a double clicking mouse to double click. Because everyone is on PC and can double click too”

Yea and everyone of those players have a PC, so we can all install autoclcikers and hacked clients too. And they are free! And I don’t have to spend money on that unlike a mouse! This should not be banable to use mods for killaura!

Please use valid logic for this

Bor u argue with everyone in everything here,just chill out nobody even listens to the rule anyways,just cus u jitter 18 does not mean everyone can, sum ppl can't jitter lick and it's not skill,it's just luck if y can or not atleast butterfly clicking takes some skill and is actually fair for everyone

 

[Lavapossum]

L

Mice are not built to double click. it just doesn't make sense, if you MEAT slap your mouse. It will cause a double click
that is NOT how you are meant to use a mouse.
It's a hardware malfunction/limitation that happens after you abuse the mouse, and specifically on lighter mice where they don't reinforce anything on the mouse to keep it lighter.

And in fact, the Model O is NOT advertised as a double clicking mouse, it's advertised as a lightweight and wired with a wireless feel.
Only reviews tell you about the double clicks!
Glorious Model O Website


Even on the Bloody A70, they DO NOT ADVERTISE the mouse as a double clicking mouse, they advertise the mouse as "Light Striking" Which does not mean lightly tapping the mouse, Light Striking is just how fast the mouse would register the click to your desktop.
And on the website it advertises itself with "No Double-Click"
A70 Website


No mice are built to double, some mice are just easier to abuse than others due to features the companies wanted implemented.
Lower Strike times, Lighter mice etc.

Double clicks do not bounce on 0MS, so it is a MUCH larger advantage than someone clicking the same CPS as you without doubles

Because doubles will bounce within a certain amount of time, thats how debounce times work.

IF you have a debounce of 10, it means it can't register a multiple clicks within 10ms. But if you double and it bounces at 12ms it still registers the double

If you click lets say 4ms before the IFrame to hit somebody, your double click will then hit them.

It's cheating because YOU are NOT PHYSICALLY causing the double click to happen, you are relying on a malfunctioning mouse side affect due to poor build quality.

That is mouse -> PC
Not debounce
It's the time the mouse takes the click to register on your desktop
View attachment 208934
Read the highlighted in yellow.

Neither the Bloody A70 or the Glo9rious Model O advertise the mice as such

View attachment 208935
Bloody A70, only 2 mentions of the word "Double" on the page, and IT'S ABOUT NO DOUBLE CLICKING
View attachment 208936
Same with Glorious Model O, the ONLY 2 mentions about double clicks are with Reviews, not the companies that made them.

Don't base your "facts" off of things that are not true.

YES the mice double click
BUT THE COMPANIES did not INTEND for them to be double clicking mice, the "minecraft" community determined this themselves, NOT the companies

There is Input Based Matchmaking to separate mobiles/pc/controllers

But the point being made is that cheating should be made legit essentially.

Why did bloody make a drag clicking mouse with bedless then buddy? Seems like u might be forgetting how many YouTubers get sponsored by roccat and bloody about double licking loll.

 

[xJupaa]

*Please read the entire post before voting, as I will be going over supporting arguments*

We will be talking about the rule:

Spoiler: Rule 1.3 Clicking Methods

The use of autoclickers, macros, mapping your click button to your mouse wheel, dragclicking, using multiple mice, or using a mouse that registers double clicks is not allowed. Also modifying your mouse's click function in any way via software or hardware is considered cheating and will result in a cheating ban.

1.3 - Clicking Methods​

What is debounce / double-clicking?

Double-clicking is a method of clicking a mouse that registers multiple inputs per one physical input on a mouse. For example, when you click once, two clicks register in-game rather than one. This is WITHOUT the use of ANY software or macros. How exactly does a double click work? A computer mouse registers a click usually by physical contact. It sends an electrical signal to your computer to register the click. When you click your mouse a certain way though, you can cause a "bouncing effect" where the mouse switches will register more than one electrical signal for a split second after you click your mouse. Some companies have gotten around this phenomenon by implementing a system called the "debounce delay" which will filter out the extra electrical signals. You can change how strict the filter is by modifying the debounce time. The higher it is set to, the more strict the filter.

Players are able to achieve higher CPS through double clicks when they lower the debounce time - reducing the filter's strictness.

The issue

Cubecraft has banned both double-clicking, and debounce modifying. This rule wasn't always around, until ~2 years ago when a player who goes by the name of STASI was suddenly banned for a month because they used "illegal modifications" by changing their debounce time.

Originally, this rule made sense, as Cubecraft had to consider other devices playing on the network (this was before input-based matchmaking), and they didn't want to allow PC players the advantage of using a special mouse feature - which mobile and console players cannot use. Now though, Cubecraft has input-based matchmaking. Players with a computer mouse go against other players with computer mice.

Most argue that "Changing your debounce is essentially using software to achieve higher CPS". This is true that you must use software to change debounce time, but you aren't using "cheating software" that is deliberately designed to exploit. The debounce slider is a feature in ALL SOFTWARE for gaming mice, made BY the company of the gaming mouse - not some third-party hacking client.

I would also like to take a moment to stop and really think about what debounce modifying really is. It is a FILTER to PREVENT clicks from occurring - not a slider to give you MORE clicks. Having your debounce slider at a high-strict setting is more of a handicap rather than a "normal occurrence". The filter itself is stopping legitimate electrical signals from being processed. It is NOT giving you MORE or LESS clicks. (This is not to be confused with a macro, which is software that multiplies a click after the signal is sent).

This argument is slightly weaker than the others, but I would still like to mention it. Nobody in the PvP/scrim community follows the debounce rule. Even new players that join Cubecraft for the first time will most likely have their debounce filter on a low setting. This happened recently with a YouTuber by the name of MontclairBear (147k subs) who uploaded a Cubecraft video for the first time a few days ago. The entire video is about him tellybridging/godbridging on Java 1.18 (godbridging requires a clicking method called dragclicking, which is only possible via a low-passive debounce filter). Unfortunately, I heard he is now banned from Java Cubecraft. Why did he use a low-passive debounce filter in his video in the first place? Because apart from Cubecraft, almost no other big PvP server restricts you from lowering your debounce. Hypixel for example allows debounce modification. Cubecraft is one of the only big PvP servers that prohibit low/passive debounce filtering.

Along with the last paragraph, reporting for double-clicking is practically impossible. Unless you have video evidence of the player's debounce slider at a low setting, there is not going to be enough proof to get someone punished. Players can simply argue that they were jitterclicking, or using another clicking method to achieve their CPS. For this reason too, almost everyone in the PvP community doubles.

Another argument I want to bring is that of "using hardware to give yourself an unfair advantage". If this really means what I think, then this can be generalized to "players are not allowed to use gaming mice on Cubecraft". The double-click phenomenon happens with every gaming mouse switch, this is not something that is only built into highly rare and expensive mice.

For my final argument, I want to go over "double-clicking is abusing your mouse's hardware to give yourself an advantage". Ok. So how is this any different from jitterclicking? If we are talking about a normal computer mouse, anything but normal clicking is technically abusing a mouse. There really is no difference whether you are jittering 18 cps or double-clicking 20 cps. It is all abusing your mouse to achieve more clicks per second in a block video game.

The solution

If Cubecraft is really concerned about high CPS, they should take the initiative themselves to add a CPS cap, not force each player to change a setting on their mouse's official software to filter out more CPS just to play on one server.

Thank you for reading if you've made it this far. Please try to keep an open mind about what I've said, and react to this post. This is also a slightly-heated topic, so, please do not start anything unnecessary.

Thanks.

u can connect a mice and keaboard to a playstation so its not like people with a mice always play against pc

 

[DarkStray]

Bor u argue with everyone in everything here,just chill out nobody even listens to the rule anyways,just cus u jitter 18 does not mean everyone can, sum ppl can't jitter lick and it's not skill,it's just luck if y can or not atleast butterfly clicking takes some skill and is actually fair for everyone

Everyone can jitterclick
I mean unless you are playing VR

But everyone who has arms can jitterclick, it's just using your muscles, tensing them up to jitter click.

It's not hard, it just takes practice.

Why did bloody make a drag clicking mouse with bedless then buddy? Seems like u might be forgetting how many YouTubers get sponsored by roccat and bloody about double licking loll.

I actually went to the web page!
Nowhere on the A70 Bedless does it say it is meant for drag clicking

Website here
Bedless advertised it as a Drag clicking mouse, not Bloody!


it's almost like , companies don't advertise Drag/Double clicking because that is an abusive way to use the mouse?
As well as that, the Rated clicks are not going by Drag/Double clicks? Because they wear the switch faster! So besides 20Million clicks you only get like 12Million

It's like that everyone who makes the argument "Some mice are made for drag and double clicking" Pull this information from the back of the dumpsters and calling it facts

Do research to prove your arguments and I will say I am wrong and you were right!
But as I see it, I am the only one here using valid arguments with proof.

 

[pipiklatie]

Banning these valueble creators who get new people to play cubecraft is not the right thing in my opinion. Since cubecraft java is allready having a rough time with its slowly decreasing number of active players banning the people who get players in the first place doesnt seem so smart in my opinion. This creator with 147k subs probably didnt even know drag clicking was not allowed as alot of new player dont know too. Yes, we have all agreed to the rules when first joining cubecraft but in the time they agreed to the rules all those years ago. They have no indication on what is and what is not allowed. I give the people who will say that this montclairbear had to be banned as he was giving spreading something that was not allowed.

For me and alot of other people we develop our skills in time. 8 years ago i started bridging like a noob. Each year i made more development in my skills. And after 6 years i had mastered alot of bridging methods so the logical next challenge to bridging was to practise godbridging which by cubecraft standerds is not allowed since it involvs dragclicking. This meant that i could not further develop my skills which for alot of people mean they will just stop playing the server since they will do it anyways and get banned.

Content creators is the main way of getting new players to your server on java edition. By reducing these people to this in my opinion limiting rule to the development of ourselves as a player (drag clicking rule). This will not help cubecraft gain players or make the players develop their skills. In my case i was able to godbridge with using dragclicking before the rule was added again which just felt like you removed a part of my body. The fact that that Montclairbear guy got banned for "unfair advantages" is what bothers me the most, you want people to not know cubecraft exists and just ban the content creators whilstnot even following their own rules that state that you can only use your own videos or screenshots to gain evidence on a player and report them. And what happend? He got banned because of his own clips... Seems like the server doesnt want new people to join and slowly keep dieing.

 

[DarkStray]

Banning these valueble creators who get new people to play cubecraft is not the right thing in my opinion. Since cubecraft java is allready having a rough time with its slowly decreasing number of active players banning the people who get players in the first place doesnt seem so smart in my opinion. This creator with 147k subs probably didnt even know drag clicking was not allowed as alot of new player dont know too. Yes, we have all agreed to the rules when first joining cubecraft but in the time they agreed to the rules all those years ago. They have no indication on what is and what is not allowed. I give the people who will say that this montclairbear had to be banned as he was giving spreading something that was not allowed.

For me and alot of other people we develop our skills in time. 8 years ago i started bridging like a noob. Each year i made more development in my skills. And after 6 years i had mastered alot of bridging methods so the logical next challenge to bridging was to practise godbridging which by cubecraft standerds is not allowed since it involvs dragclicking. This meant that i could not further develop my skills which for alot of people mean they will just stop playing the server since they will do it anyways and get banned.

Content creators is the main way of getting new players to your server on java edition. By reducing these people to this in my opinion limiting rule to the development of ourselves as a player (drag clicking rule). This will not help cubecraft gain players or make the players develop their skills. In my case i was able to godbridge with using dragclicking before the rule was added again which just felt like you removed a part of my body. The fact that that Montclairbear guy got banned for "unfair advantages" is what bothers me the most, you want people to not know cubecraft exists and just ban the content creators whilstnot even following their own rules that state that you can only use your own videos or screenshots to gain evidence on a player and report them. And what happend? He got banned because of his own clips... Seems like the server doesnt want new people to join and slowly keep dieing.

It's already a rule and has been for a long time

There is no excuse for cheating, if you cheat you deserve to get punished just as any other player, regardless of rank or status in the community

This creator with 147k subs probably didnt even know drag clicking was not allowed as alot of new player dont know too. Yes, we have all agreed to the rules when first joining cubecraft but in the time they agreed to the rules all those years ago.

Drag clicking was always banable, except for a short time Early/Mid 2021.
It was only allowed for around a month. (and technically it was still banable, as it was a "use at your own risk" and not stated as allowed unlike butterfly and jitter)
But before and after that it has always been banable.

i could not further develop my skills which for alot of people mean they will just stop playing the server since they will do it anyways and get banned.

It is not a skill.
Let me tell you why it's not,

Because if you use different mice your "skill" is fluctuating, some mice you absolutely suck, while other mice you can do it perfectly fine and if not better.
It's not a skill, it just depends on how well you can ABUSE your mouse, or in other ways cheat to gain an unfair advantage.

Unlike having a better GPU or CPU when gaming, higher res textures do not improve your skill. Sure more frames can give you a slight edge in reaction time, but that's not as much as a skill as it just quicker information.
People with low ping have an advantage over high ping players in the same way, it's not a significant advantage over having 8cps compared to 50cps

. This will not help cubecraft gain players

#1 Server Minecraft Bedrock Edition

i was able to godbridge with using dragclicking before the rule was added again which just felt like you removed a part of my body.

Drag clicking was always banable
February 10th 2020 Rule 1.3 specifically addresses drag clicking
November 2nd 2019, the earliest recording of cubecraft.net/rules ALSO states this under rule 1.3

Stop making up completely blatant lies to prove a false narrative. I played this server for 3 years now and have known the rules fairly well
Drag clicking was more strict back when you claimed it was "legitimate" and "allowed" on the server, when in fact it was NEVER allowed

The only time Drag clicking was SOMEWHAT allowed was during
April 13th 2021 But even then it WAS NOT allowed, and specified that your ban for drag clicking DOES NOT GUARENTEE a unban. Meaning YOU COULD and STILL WOULD be banned for Drag clicking and not be able to appeal.

My guess to this is that Drag Clicking above a certain amount (I would say 20) would still result in a cheating punishment
The rules then specifically stated drag clicking was completely banable again on the earliest wayback machine snapshot of July 24th 2021

But nowhere in cubecrafts history was Drag Clicking ever allowed

following their own rules that state that you can only use your own videos or screenshots to gain evidence on a player and report them.

That was never a rule

And what happend? He got banned because of his own clips... Seems like the server doesnt want new people to join and slowly keep dieing.

He got banned for cheating yes.

As the person who did make the report, and many other reports, I have never had the issue of "You can not use another persons clips"

The moderator @Pineapple Actually stated this in this post here -> https://www.cubecraft.net/threads/multiple-bedrock-report-changes.299500/post-1397499

The only time I can see reports from someone elses POV can not be accepted is when THEIR video is no longer uploaded, and you yourself uploaded the video. This does not give any timeframe on when they cheated, unlike a recent video.

When reporting MontclairBear and other creators with their own videos, I always linked the Original Videos, along side those I always take clips from their own video and shorten them down to give clearer evidence to where they are cheating.
I have seen other players upload themselves even ghost bridging and getting banned FROM THEIR POV.
Your own personal POV or another players POV does not make cheating legitimate because "It's their video".

If you cheat you cheat, and you deserve the ban

And like everytime the cubecraft bot bans me it tells me this!

"Not knowing the rules does not make you exempt to punishments."

And personally, saying “this won’t bring players to the server” is kind of stupid, because if we let the big youtuber cheat and drag click. What are all his viewers going to do? Cheat and drag click!

 

[pipiklatie]

Java Edition is dieing and something has to be done. people are getting banned for this left and right for debounce/drag. going to other servers because its allowed on almost every other server. For alot of people godbridging is the next step up from speedbridging, there are entire servers based around drag clicking. It is something that is widely accepted in the minecraft community. But cube had to be the odd one out.

 

[pipiklatie]

#1 Server Minecraft Bedrock Edition

Im talking abt java not bedrock

 

[ItsNinjaa]

I am happy finally someone came up with this, thank you RelatedNoobs
nowadays there are players on java who can consistent click 20 cps butterfly, which is almost stronger
than 10 cps drag, so I think your suggestion should be implemented.
@Capitan I agreed, because I really agree and not because they forced me to :)

 

[bwead]

And personally, saying “this won’t bring players to the server” is kind of stupid, because if we let the big youtuber cheat and drag click. What are all his viewers going to do? Cheat and drag click!

It isn't a cheat, you're literally just adjusting a setting

*Please read the entire post before voting, as I will be going over supporting arguments*

We will be talking about the rule:

Spoiler: Rule 1.3 Clicking Methods

The use of autoclickers, macros, mapping your click button to your mouse wheel, dragclicking, using multiple mice, or using a mouse that registers double clicks is not allowed. Also modifying your mouse's click function in any way via software or hardware is considered cheating and will result in a cheating ban.

1.3 - Clicking Methods​

What is debounce / double-clicking?

Double-clicking is a method of clicking a mouse that registers multiple inputs per one physical input on a mouse. For example, when you click once, two clicks register in-game rather than one. This is WITHOUT the use of ANY software or macros. How exactly does a double click work? A computer mouse registers a click usually by physical contact. It sends an electrical signal to your computer to register the click. When you click your mouse a certain way though, you can cause a "bouncing effect" where the mouse switches will register more than one electrical signal for a split second after you click your mouse. Some companies have gotten around this phenomenon by implementing a system called the "debounce delay" which will filter out the extra electrical signals. You can change how strict the filter is by modifying the debounce time. The higher it is set to, the more strict the filter.

Players are able to achieve higher CPS through double clicks when they lower the debounce time - reducing the filter's strictness.

The issue

Cubecraft has banned both double-clicking, and debounce modifying. This rule wasn't always around, until ~2 years ago when a player who goes by the name of STASI was suddenly banned for a month because they used "illegal modifications" by changing their debounce time.

Originally, this rule made sense, as Cubecraft had to consider other devices playing on the network (this was before input-based matchmaking), and they didn't want to allow PC players the advantage of using a special mouse feature - which mobile and console players cannot use. Now though, Cubecraft has input-based matchmaking. Players with a computer mouse go against other players with computer mice.

Most argue that "Changing your debounce is essentially using software to achieve higher CPS". This is true that you must use software to change debounce time, but you aren't using "cheating software" that is deliberately designed to exploit. The debounce slider is a feature in ALL SOFTWARE for gaming mice, made BY the company of the gaming mouse - not some third-party hacking client.

I would also like to take a moment to stop and really think about what debounce modifying really is. It is a FILTER to PREVENT clicks from occurring - not a slider to give you MORE clicks. Having your debounce slider at a high-strict setting is more of a handicap rather than a "normal occurrence". The filter itself is stopping legitimate electrical signals from being processed. It is NOT giving you MORE or LESS clicks. (This is not to be confused with a macro, which is software that multiplies a click after the signal is sent).

This argument is slightly weaker than the others, but I would still like to mention it. Nobody in the PvP/scrim community follows the debounce rule. Even new players that join Cubecraft for the first time will most likely have their debounce filter on a low setting. This happened recently with a YouTuber by the name of MontclairBear (147k subs) who uploaded a Cubecraft video for the first time a few days ago. The entire video is about him tellybridging/godbridging on Java 1.18 (godbridging requires a clicking method called dragclicking, which is only possible via a low-passive debounce filter). Unfortunately, I heard he is now banned from Java Cubecraft. Why did he use a low-passive debounce filter in his video in the first place? Because apart from Cubecraft, almost no other big PvP server restricts you from lowering your debounce. Hypixel for example allows debounce modification. Cubecraft is one of the only big PvP servers that prohibit low/passive debounce filtering.

Along with the last paragraph, reporting for double-clicking is practically impossible. Unless you have video evidence of the player's debounce slider at a low setting, there is not going to be enough proof to get someone punished. Players can simply argue that they were jitterclicking, or using another clicking method to achieve their CPS. For this reason too, almost everyone in the PvP community doubles.

Another argument I want to bring is that of "using hardware to give yourself an unfair advantage". If this really means what I think, then this can be generalized to "players are not allowed to use gaming mice on Cubecraft". The double-click phenomenon happens with every gaming mouse switch, this is not something that is only built into highly rare and expensive mice.

For my final argument, I want to go over "double-clicking is abusing your mouse's hardware to give yourself an advantage". Ok. So how is this any different from jitterclicking? If we are talking about a normal computer mouse, anything but normal clicking is technically abusing a mouse. There really is no difference whether you are jittering 18 cps or double-clicking 20 cps. It is all abusing your mouse to achieve more clicks per second in a block video game.

The solution

If Cubecraft is really concerned about high CPS, they should take the initiative themselves to add a CPS cap, not force each player to change a setting on their mouse's official software to filter out more CPS just to play on one server.

Thank you for reading if you've made it this far. Please try to keep an open mind about what I've said, and react to this post. This is also a slightly-heated topic, so, please do not start anything unnecessary.

Thanks.

I agree with this 100%. Thank you

 

[RelatedNoobs]

Meat slapping by lifting your finger off the mouse to then slap it back down on the mouse
(the abusive way to clicking, this is not how rated clicks are calculated)

I am getting tired of replying to you because we are just going in circles at this point. I have given responses to all of your arguments but you keep bringing up the same two things. I am not going to reply to accusations you have already voiced so far.

"feature" yet none of the mice you have given or even said have had "double clicking" in it's feature set.
double clicking is a malfunctioning switch that you abuse by incorrectly pressing your mouses switch.

Already dealt with this argument.

Why do they let you have a debounce slider if it's unintended? If they were really concerned about this "malfunction" they would either keep the debounce filter on all the time or invest in better switches for future mice.

But as I see it, I am the only one here using valid arguments with proof.

As I see it, you keep bringing up the same arguments that I have already addressed. If these two arguments are the only things you can bring to the table against my suggestion, I think it's time to stop trying or find something I have not replied to yet.

"It's not a feature it's a malfunction!"
"You have to 'meat slap' your mouse to double click!"

 

[DarkStray]

It isn't a cheat, you're literally just adjusting a setting

What happens when you have a mouse that doesn’t double and doesn’t have a setting?

What happens when most people don’t double click?

You ARE NOT clicking 20+cps you are clicking 8 cps but get 20+ due to a broken mouse.
That is the same as cheating.

I am getting tired of replying to you because we are just going in circles at this point. I have given responses to all of your arguments but you keep bringing up the same two things. I am not going to reply to accusations you have already voiced so far.

Already dealt with this argument.

Why do they let you have a debounce slider if it's unintended? If they were really concerned about this "malfunction" they would either keep the debounce filter on all the time or invest in better switches for future mice.

Debounce sliders are not for the point of allowing double clicking. The point of a debounce slider is there so you could butterfly click without any unregistered clicks.
If you butterfly click with 2 fingers nearly at the same time it would register.

Just lighter mice with poorer made quality like the Model O and A70, since they have lighter switches it just inherently causes doubles. Cause believe it or not mice aren’t meant to be used like that.

As I see it, you keep bringing up the same arguments that I have already addressed. If these two arguments are the only things you can bring to the table against my suggestion, I think it's time to stop trying or find something I have not replied to yet.

It’s not a feature. What mouse advertises itself as double clicking on the website? Or even on packaging. I have disproved you lying about the A70 advertising a “0.2 debounce” when in fact it was a response time from the click to desktop.

And infact you DO have to meat slap your mouse to cause a double click. Because if you avtually normal click your mouse YOU WON’T DOUBLE.

And if you think it’s the same 2 arguments I am making, you are still wrong. And you are probably not reading my entire posts
You replied to those 2 yes, and I responded back saying that is how you abuse the mouse and cause doubles.
But itMs not the only 2 arguments.

If you go back to the first post I show the websites for wach mouse to prove there is no featured double/drag features advertised. And much more in my other posts